Y'shtola is a Mary Sue.

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Originally Posted by ZeraSkiratea

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I'm not even gonna bother to counter this.

"Lol." said the scorpion "Lmao."

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Originally Posted by CosmicCoqui

Well her blindness is linked to something that will eventually lead to her end one way or another. And as that eventually comes closer, she won't really be able to do as much so she will just get weaker and weaker as time moves on.

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Sure. . . . sure.

I'll believe that SE gets rid of the Mascot of FFXIV when they stop supporting the game and shut down the servers. Y'shtola will be the one who presses the button.

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Originally Posted by Soge01

Not every character needs an emotional growth arc to make them great.

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Characters in well crafted stories do.

It is also worth noting that "off-screen character development" is cited by many as one of the disappointing aspects of WoW's handling of its story. The last thing we need in FFXIV is for the same thing to happen here.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

Name me one time where Endsinger was hinted at or even named prior to 6.0. She came from nowhere. She appears and die in 6.0 that not called being ''build up''. We had Zodiark portrayed as the BBEG since 1.0, he should have been the final boss or used by the final boss at some extend.

Im not saying murder all Scion btw, im just saying it okay to let some die, Papalymo died yet we survived the next few Xpac didn't we?

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Now you're moving goalposts. You said not mentioned at all before now you're saying prior to 6.0. Gotta be consistent here. That may not be build up to you but it is to others. Endsinger certainly wasn't some random pop up to me.
As for Zodiark why would an incomplete being be the final boss? Imo the subversion was very well done.

One thing I'll never get is why people think characters need to die for stuff to be good.

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Originally Posted by ZeraSkiratea

this is an easy one..


ARGUABLY depending on how wide we throw the net, and how 2direct" you want it..


References to a potential idea similiar to ENdsinger WAS dropped in ARR. During the Ending cutscene after punching Lahabrea hydelin talks about "the dark one, residing in the abyss, for while it yet lives, the world may never know true peace"(heavily paraphrased) that Line, at the time, was ALMOST 100% taken to mean zodiark givne the namedrop a few moments later, and it is possible(if not likely) that it was intended to be about zodiark, but the wording, and hindsight of EW, makes it fit FAR better to Endsinger, as hydealin would not have said "while it yet lives" given she didnt want you to murder zodiark.


Yes, this reference was A) very likely retconned later, and B) very obtuse, it is however, a very possible "foreshadow" about somethign other then zodiark, ESPECIALY after we killed him in EW

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It’s not foreshadowing. The devs literally said this expansion that they don’t plan things out ahead of time. They just go with the flow of the story. It was 100% meant to be Zodiark.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Now you're moving goalposts. You said not mentioned at all before now you're saying prior to 6.0. Gotta be consistent here. That may not be build up to you but it is to others. Endsinger certainly wasn't some random pop up to me.
As for Zodiark why would an incomplete being be the final boss? Imo the subversion was very well done.

One thing I'll never get is why people think characters need to die for stuff to be good.

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Meteion and Hermes were introduced as last minute additions by means of time travel. A decent chunk of the playerbase believed that the the Sound was caused by some kind of extra-terrestrial parasite like Lavos or an unseen 3rd deity within the Star. None of these groups won out by having the Sound be "ultimate despair." The playerbase knew something else was up, but we were expecting something better than sad bird girl and sad researcher.

No, characters do not need to die for the story to be worthwhile. They need to evolve in meaningful ways, grow, perform sacrifices, etc. Their sacrifices also need to count for something, and not be invalidated and made meaningless 2 seconds after they occur. FFIV had the twins turn to stone. They came back, but not until the end. In this game, Gosetsu held off a collapsing castle just long enough for us to escape, but didn't return until several patches later, which helped build up the anticipation and desire for the character to return.

In Endwalker there's very little of that when it comes to the Scions. All the character progression G'raha Tia experienced in Shadowbringers was thrown into the trash can for the sake of memes and college living scenes. Thancred's sacrifice back in Shadowbringers amounted to very little, and barely had a reaction when he learned the First would be left behind if the inhabitants of the Source escaped via the moon. It's been said a million times already, but Ultima Thule was the pinnacle of this joke. A series of "fight for hope!" scenes and their subsequent fake-outs leading to the party being brought back eventually. There was hardly any impact at all.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

It’s not foreshadowing. The devs literally said this expansion that they don’t plan things out ahead of time. They just go with the flow of the story. It was 100% meant to be Zodiark.

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Or Hydaelyn, by the end of Shadowbringers I had grown to distrust her especially after the revelation of her original name being Venat. While I grew to like Venat as an ancient and part of the trio in Elpis, her later actions were a betrayal of both me as the player character and of all humanity besides. Instead the story has to bend over backwards trying to justify how the FFXIV equivalent of humanity's expulsion from paradise was somehow ok, and how a character who is more fallen angel than Goddess is somehow in the right.

I would have liked to have gained a "blessing of darkness" from Zodiark or at the very least have had his plotline fleshed out more. Instead we got Urianger promising to not lie to us again or whatever else happened with the Loporrits and the Moon.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Now you're moving goalposts. You said not mentioned at all before now you're saying prior to 6.0. Gotta be consistent here. That may not be build up to you but it is to others. Endsinger certainly wasn't some random pop up to me.
As for Zodiark why would an incomplete being be the final boss? Imo the subversion was very well done.

One thing I'll never get is why people think characters need to die for stuff to be good.

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It's almost like you don't read what we write.... so for the third time. We're not saying ''lol let homicide Scions'' We're saying it's hard to get involved in a story where nothing matters cause there is no RISK of death for them. It is not thrilling if, let's say Urianger get left behind cause he ''sacrifice'' himself to buy the WOL time, cause you know he will succeed and get out of it with no serious injury. I'm not saying he should die, but he could get some injury that takes him out of the story for a bit so he can recover.

Also saying Zodiark can't be a boss cause he incomplete is kinda stupid as 98% or so of the bosses are and so is the WOL. The fact they turned their whole main villain build up into the first trial just show they had no idea of what to do with the story.

Honestly, by the end of Shadowbringers I had already mentally written off Zodiark as being the final boss of Endwalker because they had already done away with his prior image as some sinister god of chaos, he was stuck in an incomplete state, and the Final Days strongly implied there were other forces at work.

...Though in the end, he was arguably still treated as a villain for representing the supposedly ill-fated wish of Ancients to bring back their "perfect" world and the unending codex glosses over the fact that he's the main reason Etheriys even exists still.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Or Hydaelyn, by the end of Shadowbringers I had grown to distrust her especially after the revelation of her original name being Venat. While I grew to like Venat as an ancient and part of the trio in Elpis, her later actions were a betrayal of both me as the player character and of all humanity besides. Instead the story has to bend over backwards trying to justify how the FFXIV equivalent of humanity's expulsion from paradise was somehow ok, and how a character who is more fallen angel than Goddess is somehow in the right.

I would have liked to have gained a "blessing of darkness" from Zodiark or at the very least have had his plotline fleshed out more. Instead we got Urianger promising to not lie to us again or whatever else happened with the Loporrits and the Moon.

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IMO would have been better if they made Hydaelyn similar to Emet back in Shadowbringer. A character with Motivation that is for the ''greater good'' but requires sacrifice that is ambiguous. They could have gone for the thing they did back in Eden with Shiva, where her theme hints that the Light wants to create peace and salvation at the cost of free will. We could have had a depressed Hydaelyn that came to the conclusion that salvation could only come at the price of free will. And having our WOL proving her wrong or something of the like.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

IMO would have been better if they made Hydaelyn similar to Emet back in Shadowbringer. A character with Motivation that is for the ''greater good'' but requires sacrifice that is ambiguous. They could have gone for the thing they did back in Eden with Shiva, where her theme hints that the Light wants to create peace and salvation at the cost of free will. We could have had a depressed Hydaelyn that came to the conclusion that salvation could only come at the price of free will. And having our WOL proving her wrong or something of the like.

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Why repeat story beats we had with other characters? That would just be a Vauthry story on roids

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Why repeat story beats we had with other characters? That would just be a Vauthry story on roids

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All they do is repeat story beats though. To relate it to this thread that’s all Yshtola has been. Just repeating some death flag and some “sacrifice” that she always comes out alright after the fact. Also that wasn’t exactly vauthry’s story on roids. He wanted the flood to take over and kill everyone lol. Pretty different outcomes there.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Why repeat story beats we had with other characters? That would just be a Vauthry story on roids

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The story's already doing this plenty. See Y'shtola and Alphinaud as the most egregious examples.

I disagree that characters need an arc to be interesting or worthwhile as in "What will character X do in this situation" instead of "How will this character change in this situation". Granted, it needs to be an already fleshed out character to work effectively.

As for the OP: Not all characters with platinum plot armor are Mary Sues. But all Mary Sues have platinum plot armor.

And if you want a spicy take, all the girl scions are more or less the same character with the only difference being their level of aggressiveness. That's why I like Krile the best, she is less obnoxious.

Another contributing factor to the Mary Sue situation is that FFXIV is extremely unwilling to show the female protagonists in any states of emotional vulnerability, the only notable exception being Ysayle when her faith was utterly shattered. Moments like that offer those of us who may be otherwise closed off to a character a moment to potentially sympathize with them, rather than enduring another set of throwaway text boxes.

Characters like Y’shtola or goodness forbid Lyse never reach such states. Alisae occasionally has believable reactions to the more tense moments of the plot (Tesleen, telling Ryne to not make false promises, the crack in her voice when she screams at Alphinaud for letting their father walk away) - though these are few and far between.

They just don’t hold up to the heroines of previous Final Fantasy games. None of them can stand up to the likes of Garnet, Celes, or Yuna. Even Eiko from FFIX, a literal 6-year old, managed to evolve in more significant ways by their journey’s end than characters like Y’shtola - and all without meaningless fakeouts and depictions of physical impairments that ultimately do not affect the character in any notable capacity. Their growth shown *on screen* made the space these characters took up worthwhile. They did more than just react and make sassy comments. As for Krile, I have very little love for her given her status as another useless Minfilia wallflower whose direct influence on the plot only happens in moments that are extremely far apart.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Unfortunately for a pretty big portion of the community, whenever it’s a man hitting on a woman it’s seen as “creepy and gross.” But if it’s a hot lady making comments about spanking or a female character hitting on a dude it’s “so cute and yas qween.” Double standards and all that.

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Make that in almost any community. How many times have we seen men get condemned for something that a hot woman would otherwise be praised for?

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Originally Posted by LLSmoothJ

Make that in almost any community. How many times have we seen men get condemned for something that a hot woman would otherwise be praised for?

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True true, i’m just trying not to start a huge war in here but yeah…it’s shitty.

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Originally Posted by LLSmoothJ

Make that in almost any community. How many times have we seen men get condemned for something that a hot woman would otherwise be praised for?

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It reminds me of that situation Wizards of the Coast had with a pair of cards they printed. I forgot the names but cards shows an evil looking female necromancer getting pinned down by a berzerker looking guy and the other card has her lording over the berzerker as some undead hands are about to crush his head in. I believe they kept the latter but removed the former. I like it when card games tell a story through the pictures and the flavor text, I really enjoy the concept of showing over telling.

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Originally Posted by BrokentoothMarch

The story's already doing this plenty. See Y'shtola and Alphinaud as the most egregious examples.

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Yep.

The game seems terrified of shaking up the status quo on any front. It's exactly why I question how many 'story driven' games many FFXIV players have actually played because so many of the established characters are very 'safe' and rarely react in realistic ways.

That not a single Scion was ever at risk of turning into a Blasphemy was utterly laughable to me. Yet if we look at other story driven games - such as The Witcher 3 - even some of the characters that show up in a single quest chain are more fleshed out and dynamic.

Meanwhile in FFXIV, the moment a character rises above the surface of the water they are usually killed off or forced to change. Not only are we stuck with a bloated cast, any character that dares to think or commit to different opinions and methods is shoved aside.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

Y'shtola is a character with no weaknesses, and because of this, a character I can't relate with. She is the postergirl of FFXIV, the scion you chose to put in Dissidia and sell a doll of, and yet I feel she is the most underdeveloped as a character. I then realized why. She has no vulnerabilities to speak of and even death cannot claim her.

Thancred got his development in Shadowbringers.
Urianger got his development in Endwalker.
Estinien got his development in Heavensward.
Alisaie got her development from Stormblood onward.
Alphinaud got his development through... the whole game.
G'raha Tia got his development in Shadowbringers.

Of these aforementioned scions, I know what drives them. Their worries, their fears, their goals. They feel like fleshed out human-beings. Y'shtola feels like... something else. What do we know about her other than she craves knowledge and likes to roast people? Yes, she has someone dear to her. Master Matoya, whom she trades insults back and forth with. Have we ever seen her show anything besides stoicism or sarcastic wit? Even Emet-Selch, for as sarcastic and trolly as he is, shows his emotions when it's called for. It is for this reason I won't give the writers slack on this. They are skilled enough to flesh out any character should they so choose.

I really hope SE plans to flesh out her character in an upcoming patch or expansion so that the postergirl of FFXIV can stop being the most underdeveloped scion.

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Troll thread.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

The end of EW made me lose a ton of respect for the writers because it shows me that they don't have any guts in their writing...."oh we might make some players mad if XXXXX dies".

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except, they never even entertained the idea they were dead for good. almost right away they point out that you can bring everyone back with the magic Hydaelyn gave you. The only uncertainty was how we could accomplish it without undoing the changes they made to Ultima Thule which was revealed at the end of the zone. There are some flaws with how they wrote the ending to Endwalker, but that was not one of them.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Another contributing factor to the Mary Sue situation is that FFXIV is extremely unwilling to show the female protagonists in any states of emotional vulnerability, the only notable exception being Ysayle when her faith was utterly shattered. Moments like that offer those of us who may be otherwise closed off to a character a moment to potentially sympathize with them, rather than enduring another set of throwaway text boxes.

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Setting aside the fact that this really isn't the case, do they really need to be emotionally vulnerable to feel like 'authentic' heroes to you, though? Sometimes heroes are just cool and closed off by virtue of who they are. This just sounds like a personal preference.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Setting aside the fact that this really isn't the case, do they really need to be emotionally vulnerable to feel like 'authentic' heroes to you, though? Sometimes heroes are just cool and closed off by virtue of who they are. This just sounds like a personal preference.

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Yes. Acknowledging one’s shortcomings is necessary for growth. Nowhere in the story does Y’shtola do this.

Her character is stagnant and unchanging throughout the entirety of Season 1. With a complete lack of emotional development you cannot ask me to root for a character like this the same way I root for characters like Ysayle or other Final Fantasy heroines.

This character has utterly wasted the majority of her screen time by acting solely as a means for lore exposition. Forgive me if I’m eager to replace what is little more than a voiced FF Wiki page.

Endwalker’s handling of the ending sequence is still one of the worst examples of endings in the entire series. Sacrifices that amount to nothing, plot armor too thick to be believable, all while preaching this tiresome “conflict of values” nonsense. I’m not running on EW launch hype any longer, stepping back and analyzing it in hindsight brings all of its flaws to light.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

Y'shtola is a character with no weaknesses, and because of this, a character I can't relate with. She is the postergirl of FFXIV, the scion you chose to put in Dissidia and sell a doll of, and yet I feel she is the most underdeveloped as a character. I then realized why. She has no vulnerabilities to speak of and even death cannot claim her.

Thancred got his development in Shadowbringers.
Urianger got his development in Endwalker.
Estinien got his development in Heavensward.
Alisaie got her development from Stormblood onward.
Alphinaud got his development through... the whole game.
G'raha Tia got his development in Shadowbringers.

Of these aforementioned scions, I know what drives them. Their worries, their fears, their goals. They feel like fleshed out human-beings. Y'shtola feels like... something else. What do we know about her other than she craves knowledge and likes to roast people? Yes, she has someone dear to her. Master Matoya, whom she trades insults back and forth with. Have we ever seen her show anything besides stoicism or sarcastic wit? Even Emet-Selch, for as sarcastic and trolly as he is, shows his emotions when it's called for. It is for this reason I won't give the writers slack on this. They are skilled enough to flesh out any character should they so choose.

I really hope SE plans to flesh out her character in an upcoming patch or expansion so that the postergirl of FFXIV can stop being the most underdeveloped scion.

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She should have died in Stromblood when Zenos cut her in half.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

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Character development isn't personality change. It is elucidation. People are by and large creatures of habit.

I'm not even sure what you're getting at with 'emotional development' in this context. Does she need to air her emotions publicly in order to be more 'authentic'? To cry in front of you, and daydream of Runar? You're welcome to like or dislike whichever characters that you like, but there's no deep literary standard underpinning that impulse. Just your own framework of biases.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Troll thread.

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I'm not sure in what world one could read this and the replies and think this was a troll thread. Nevertheless, thank you for your amazing contribution.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Character development isn't personality change. It is elucidation. People are by and large creatures of habit.

I'm not even sure what you're getting at with 'emotional development' in this context. Does she need to air her emotions publicly in order to be more 'authentic'? To cry in front of you, and daydream of Runar? You're welcome to like or dislike whichever characters that you like, but there's no deep literary standard underpinning that impulse. Just your own framework of biases.

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Yes. Let her display some kind of emotional depth to and drop the sassy scholar persona for once. Let her engage in some kind of back and forth banter like Venat and Ysayle were both capable of doing.

I absolutely prefer for any character regardless of gender to display a broad range of emotions as well as believable human reactions to the story.

Celes = openly accused Terra of mocking her when she was asked if she could feel love, and eventually was brought to the breaking point where she threw herself off a cliff in one of the most dramatic moments in Final Fantasy history.

Garnet = feels the pain of being betrayed by her mother, has funny interactions as she learns to act more like a normal person and less like a Princess, loses her voice due to grief, and eventually turns out to be one of the series’ most resilient heroines.

I could name others but these are some examples of what good writing looks like. Not whatever has been going with Y’shtola for the past 8 years.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

I'm not sure in what world one could read this and the replies and think this was a troll thread. Nevertheless, thank you for your amazing contribution.

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Troll thread.

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Originally Posted by CerusSerenade

Troll thread.

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Walk in front of a moving train. It's the ultimate troll.

Either way, I'm seeing a lot of hairsplitting. Whether Y'shtola is a Mary Sue or not is completely irrelevant, at the risk of moving goalposts. The point is that she's an atrocious and insipid character who's entire existence is "Have something to make dolls out of to sell to people with suspicious intent." Any personality trait beyond that is null.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

It’s not foreshadowing. The devs literally said this expansion that they don’t plan things out ahead of time. They just go with the flow of the story. It was 100% meant to be Zodiark.

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i mentioned "very likely retconned and very obtuse"
at the time, it wasnt foreshadowing,

in hindsight it can be considerd to BE foreshadowing, unintentionall one, but foreshadowing non the less

If it wasn't intended originally, it wasn't foreshadowing. It was a loose end -- one that got recontextualized later.

Foreshadowing is a plot element deliberately put in place with a specific, intended revelation in mind. Loose ends are when you introduce vague, undefined mysteries simply for the purpose of seeing which ones bear fruit later. For example, Lost, The X-Files, Sherlock, Kingdom Hearts and a lot of stories based on cryptic plots rely on throwing as many loose ends at the audience as possible with no intention to make every single one of them pan out. More insidious writers will try to disguise loose ends as foreshadowing by "answering" these clues later, but in the case of FFXIV, the writers have actually admitted that they made stuff up as they went along. Replaying/rewatching 1.0 and ARR knowing what you know about Ascians from 5.0 and beyond is a trip, because you can definitely see what the writing staff meant when they said they just started out having "bad guys doing bad guy things" and hoping to make sense of it later.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

Y'shtola is a character with no weaknesses, and because of this, a character I can't relate with. She is the postergirl of FFXIV, the scion you chose to put in Dissidia and sell a doll of, and yet I feel she is the most underdeveloped as a character. I then realized why. She has no vulnerabilities to speak of and even death cannot claim her.

Thancred got his development in Shadowbringers.
Urianger got his development in Endwalker.
Estinien got his development in Heavensward.
Alisaie got her development from Stormblood onward.
Alphinaud got his development through... the whole game.
G'raha Tia got his development in Shadowbringers.

Of these aforementioned scions, I know what drives them. Their worries, their fears, their goals. They feel like fleshed out human-beings. Y'shtola feels like... something else. What do we know about her other than she craves knowledge and likes to roast people? Yes, she has someone dear to her. Master Matoya, whom she trades insults back and forth with. Have we ever seen her show anything besides stoicism or sarcastic wit? Even Emet-Selch, for as sarcastic and trolly as he is, shows his emotions when it's called for. It is for this reason I won't give the writers slack on this. They are skilled enough to flesh out any character should they so choose.

I really hope SE plans to flesh out her character in an upcoming patch or expansion so that the postergirl of FFXIV can stop being the most underdeveloped scion.

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I'm sorry but we don't hate on the mommy black mage in this forum. Time out for you!

I think Y'shtola is a developed enough character. To me a flaw of hers is more her overconfidence, and even her ambition to seek knowledge could be seen as a flaw too. For example, the fact that she has twice needed saving from the lifestream, the first time leaving her permanently blind in the traditional sense. I do agree though that she is perhaps the one who has gone through the least overall development in the Scions, and would like to see her ‘fail’ or show that hubris in a bit of a stronger light. That said, judging from 6.1 I suspect we will be seeing her more then any of the other Scions going forward, for the time being at least, as we seek the Void and she continues her pursuit of other worlds.

Sadly, I have to agree with the OP. I really WANT to like Y'shtola, but I think the devs have leaned a little TOO hard into how "cool" she is, to the point they don't feel like they treat her the same as other characters. Like, they're afraid to give her any vulnerabilities? The irony being, vulnerabilities are what make characters seem even stronger.

I'll admit, I REALLY don't like Runar -- actually, I find the Hrothgar in general to be a little too "cuddly", it feels awkward everyone treats them like they're just "normal human members of society" -- but even that's an angle that might get Y'shtola to open up a bit more.

Like, we've MET her sister before, but surprisingly very little. What if we got a little storyline where Y'shtola's asked to come to her sister's wedding, and we get to see Y'shtola actually worrying about social interactions with all these people? That could honestly be a lot of fun; normal people are trying to initiate basic small-talk with her at the wedding, but she keeps going into aetheric theory or larger-than-life stories about saving the world.

Similarly, you could end it on a more emotional beat, where maybe her and her sister have a heart-to-heart where Y'shtola isn't sure if she's really "cut out for relationships", and her sister saying she'll love her no matter what, and not having a partner doesn't make her any less "complete" or something to that effect. I mean, the devs seem hesitant to have Y'shtola "tied down" to a relationship anyways, and I imagine that's a message a lot of players would appreciate anyways, that nobody should be "obligated" to have a relationship.

Actually, it could be a good point to move Magnai and Sadu's story forward, as well. Maybe they show up for some reason, and Magnai mistakenly falls for an Au Ra maiden, only to realize it's Sadu and prompty going into denial. Or maybe some other character tries to "set them up" on a blind date or something, not realizing they actually know each other, but when they hear ABOUT "the other person", they both seem enamored by their qualities.

Again, just good fun, but definitely a great way to have some MEANINGFUL development for Y'shtola, and perhaps some other characters in the meantime.

On the contrary, I think Y'shtola is a well done character.

Not every character needs to be a developing character and for Y'shtola, she has already come into her own by the time we met her in the story and it's nice to have a full-fledged character. Besides, we are still shown the other side of her serious demeanor in the latest patch where she went "Froth and foam!", which wouldn't have the same impact if her character is not already firmly established.

Someone who takes up the slot of a main party member having little to no development is unacceptable. Even the Lalafells from the Thaumaturge guild go through more growth than she does. I’d sooner have them in my party than Y’shtola.

This directly goes against the trend of party members not only in most Final Fantasy games but in RPGs in general. The froth and foam scene was only mildly interesting to me because in the English version she got to use her Titania voice again - otherwise the scene serves no purpose.

Please play more rpgs and then come back and see if you still hold the opinion that the invincible cat girl is well done in comparison to them. No moments of true vulnerability, no consequences for any of her actions, and no sacrifices with any real meaning. A comfort plushie to be used as marketing material for $1000 dolls who probably has more going on in the FFXIV high school manga than the actual main story of FFXIV itself.

Like I said, I think they just need to have some FUN with the character, scale her back from being so SERIOUS or "oh she's SO SMART" all the time.

Putting her in positions where she's a bit socially awkward would just be really endearing, I think. I don't think anyone questions that she's smart or competent, we just want to see a little more of who she is as a PERSON.