You are trolling if you are not using essences and actions in Delubrum

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

I would love to see this fictional 15 minute delubrum run, would be amazing to witness. :P

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I have been in really quick runs, but they certainly were not 15 minutes thats for sure. 23-25 at the most for me personally; so yeah... 15 minutes would be a heck of a thing to see. xD

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Originally Posted by Silica-chan

Or people that don't want to deal with people not using essences/actions could just stick to PF.

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yeah, I hate to see people play their job and use their kit well, too!

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Nah... nothing says youre required to use essences or lost actions for normal runs, use what you got but dont really NEED them. Its 100% up to folks on where they want to waste their time, farming or slow runs.

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If you are in DR use an essence. It can be anything, just use something. It's not to help just you, it's to help the other 23 people with you. If I decide to bring one but like 10 others decide not to, those people now made my choice of having a fast run invalid.

Today I was in a Castrum a run with 18 players, so we got Echo bonus. My party's setup was pretty bad, with players having combinations like Cure II and Cure III for whatever reason including healers, or carrying Protect/Shell on DPS and a general lack of essence. I went as MNK with Beast Essence, Rend Armor and Assassinate. I went bottom with a 10-8 split.

Bottom had a 40% advantage on top. I stop DPSing for a bit waiting for them to catch up but the Drill is taking a lot of damage due to low numbers for the split attacks and tethers, so we kill bot with Top still on 50%. We kill the waves of mobs for 2+ minutes but eventually we wipe because Drill took too much damage from Top's boss attack.

We have time for one more attempt, so this time I go top. 9-9 split. This time Top finishes almost 40% ahead. Bottom is unable to kill boss before the drill dies from splits and tethers.

This is how important essence and action usage is on Bozja.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

Today I was in a Castrum a run with 18 players, so we got Echo bonus. My party's setup was pretty bad, with players having combinations like Cure II and Cure III for whatever reason including healers, or carrying Protect/Shell on DPS and a general lack of essence. I went as MNK with Beast Essence, Rend Armor and Assassinate. I went bottom with a 10-8 split.

Bottom had a 40% advantage on top. I stop DPSing for a bit waiting for them to catch up but the Drill is taking a lot of damage due to low numbers for the split attacks and tethers, so we kill bot with Top still on 50%. We kill the waves of mobs for 2+ minutes but eventually we wipe because Drill took too much damage from Top's boss attack.

We have time for one more attempt, so this time I go top. 9-9 split. This time Top finishes almost 40% ahead. Bottom is unable to kill boss before the drill dies from splits and tethers.

This is how important essence and action usage is on Bozja.

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now you understand my pain

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Originally Posted by lezard21

Today I was in a Castrum a run with 18 players, so we got Echo bonus. My party's setup was pretty bad, with players having combinations like Cure II and Cure III for whatever reason including healers, or carrying Protect/Shell on DPS and a general lack of essence. I went as MNK with Beast Essence, Rend Armor and Assassinate. I went bottom with a 10-8 split.

Bottom had a 40% advantage on top. I stop DPSing for a bit waiting for them to catch up but the Drill is taking a lot of damage due to low numbers for the split attacks and tethers, so we kill bot with Top still on 50%. We kill the waves of mobs for 2+ minutes but eventually we wipe because Drill took too much damage from Top's boss attack.

We have time for one more attempt, so this time I go top. 9-9 split. This time Top finishes almost 40% ahead. Bottom is unable to kill boss before the drill dies from splits and tethers.

This is how important essence and action usage is on Bozja.

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Yep, I call out Lost Spellforge is much more helpful nowadays for the first Castrum bosses because of sporadic essence use, and yet people still don't know that both floors of bosses have weakness to Magic.

The uninformed still play this "amount of people should be even" BS game. Of course if you have majority casters on the floor it will melt. Spellforge the best equalizer, not to mention saving a lot of time. I'm willing to bet 80% who queue into Castrum probably even have that skill in the chest and just never decide to bring it.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

I have been in really quick runs, but they certainly were not 15 minutes thats for sure. 23-25 at the most for me personally; so yeah... 15 minutes would be a heck of a thing to see. xD

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Just tried a premade PF group for the first time the other day and we made it in 19 minutes. We still had a bunch of people that weren't at 10 damage stacks yet too. It was actually wild how much we just... skipped. I don't think the last boss even jumped away at all?? Like... it was awesome lmao

Someone in my static got a 16 minute PF run on Sunday. The fastest group I've ever queued into was 29 minutes, and they average closer to 40 in my experience. I honestly might just stick to PF runs as long as people are still doing them, cause with a good enough group you can literally do 2-3 runs in the time a queued group usually takes for 1.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

This is how important essence and action usage is on Bozja.

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Not gonna lie, your story is part of the reason I’m wishing for more side-contents with this sort of ‘soft DPS checks’. Main story contents can stay ‘roflstomp’ as they are today because they’re mandatory, but implementing such dps checks on side contents such as this… probably won’t be too much to ask. Besides, being a sidecontent, means players can choose to ignore it and still play the game just fine in other contents.

A friend of mine had a similar ordeal & ever since then they’d been hitting me up to assist in frag/cluster farming to bulk them up with supplies of essences & lost actions. It’s a refreshing change from the previous ”Lololol you don’t need essences lmao.”-attitude they had before.

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Originally Posted by Avidria

Just tried a premade PF group for the first time the other day and we made it in 19 minutes. We still had a bunch of people that weren't at 10 damage stacks yet too. It was actually wild how much we just... skipped. I don't think the last boss even jumped away at all?? Like... it was awesome lmao

Someone in my static got a 16 minute PF run on Sunday. The fastest group I've ever queued into was 29 minutes, and they average closer to 40 in my experience. I honestly might just stick to PF runs as long as people are still doing them, cause with a good enough group you can literally do 2-3 runs in the time a queued group usually takes for 1.

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It's also a lot more money efficient. I have to use 1 and a half stacks of Rend Armor on a queued run to make it take 30 minutes, whereas in a PF run I don't end up using 1 full stack and it takes 15 minutes.

I really hope Squarenix starts listening to player's feedback for once and implements a way to kick griefers that don't use essences and actions since they are costing people time and money.

At the end of the day essences are not a requirement to clear the content, only a benefit. DR is classed as casual content and the devs aren't going to alienate groups of players if they don't have essences/lost actions etc for the run.

The worse thing about the content is players afking or doing the bare minimal (not lost action related) and you can't even dismiss them from the duty or replace them, there is no leaver penalty either so it encourages bad behaviour. Granted you shouldn't have to stay in a run of you feel it wastes your time, but it really should have the same leaver rules as any other duty regardless.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

The worse thing about the content is players afking or doing the bare minimal (not lost action related) and you can't even dismiss them from the duty or replace them, there is no leaver penalty either so it encourages bad behaviour. Granted you shouldn't have to stay in a run of you feel it wastes your time, but it really should have the same leaver rules as any other duty regardless.

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No. A thousand times no. If you are not forced to use the tools that the game provides you around which the content was balanced in the first place, then I shouldn't be forced to stay for 1 hour.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

snip.

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Tools which are optional and content that is balanced for use without them. You want content that requires tools, go in to DR Savage. Same with rank honours, you don't need them but it's beneficial, people survived just fine before they were added. Besides if other players in the duty want to do it with little or no actions; even if it takes an hour, you are being just as selfish by leaving the group down a member and wasting their time; like with any other duty. But hey if you don't like being forced to do things, don't force things on to others, it works both ways bub.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

Tools which are optional and content that is balanced for use without them. You want content that requires tools, go in to DR Savage. Same with rank honours, you don't need them but it's beneficial, people survived just fine before they were added. Besides if other players in the duty want to do it with little or no actions; even if it takes an hour, you are being just as selfish by leaving the group down a member and wasting their time; like with any other duty. But hey if you don't like being forced to do things, don't force things on to others, it works both ways bub.

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Lezard has some pretty...uh, interesting takes sometimes, but I'd have to side with them on this one. Also, DR is clearly tuned for essence use. The HP of each boss reflects that. It's just not a requirement to have or use them, but it certainly is encouraged. If the difference between full essence use can be from 20 minutes with them to upwards of 45-60 minutes without them, they are definitely incentivizing players to use them.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

content that is balanced for use without them.

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It's not. Otherwise you would be queued through the Duty Finder. You can end up in a DR with no tanks or healers, thus essences are required to cover for those shortcomings. I've had this happen a couple of times. All of the bosses have above 90m Hp, leading to the instace lasting for 1:30 hour if no one uses essences or actions, longer by a long mile than any other content in the game. It was balanced with people using essences in mind to take an average of 25 minutes. Even before Pure Essences and advance actions became so easily available, at which point 15 minute run became not only possible, but very cost efficient.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Lezard has some pretty...uh, interesting takes sometimes, but I'd have to side with them on this one. Also, DR is clearly tuned for essence use. The HP of each boss reflects that. It's just not a requirement to have or use them, but it certainly is encouraged. If the difference between full essence use can be from 20 minutes with them to upwards of 45-60 minutes without them, they are definitely incentivizing players to use them.

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If… IF… 24 players queues in without essences and lost actions, the run itself will last for roughly 80m or so. Add more minutes depending on how much mistakes & deaths players will make in such prolonged boss encounters in addition to the possibility of having much less red dps queueing in or not having a tank (hello good dpses getting one shotted by tankbusters). It will add up considerably.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

Besides if other players in the duty want to do it with little or no actions; even if it takes an hour, you are being just as selfish by leaving the group down a member and wasting their time

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I'll do one better: just go cook a meal and use /hudlayout. That's even more selfish. Everyone should do that if the group is not using essences.

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

I would love to see this fictional 15 minute delubrum run, would be amazing to witness. :P

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlb23U12D0A

Here.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

Tools which are optional and content that is balanced for use without them. You want content that requires tools, go in to DR Savage. Same with rank honours, you don't need them but it's beneficial, people survived just fine before they were added. Besides if other players in the duty want to do it with little or no actions; even if it takes an hour, you are being just as selfish by leaving the group down a member and wasting their time; like with any other duty. But hey if you don't like being forced to do things, don't force things on to others, it works both ways bub.

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People who don't care about the run taking longer should not be concerned when they end up with a longer run. Not using essence and actions translates into not caring about the run taking longer which logically speaking should translate into not caring about people leaving because that only makes the run take more time to complete but as we have already established people who don't use actions don't care about so what is the problem? If you are one of those who uses actions and sticks around, that's on you, you can always leave and re-queue without penalty. When I was doing them the queues took less time than what it took to kill the first boss. When I see that 3 mins have passed and the boss is staying around 60-70% hp, I suicide, leave and queue again. That type of alliance clears DR in one hour. I often stick with those who clear DR within 30 mins.

I was reading this thread, and I came across this, and I'd just like to note that as the biggest time wasters of all... if SE is going to make changes, they should just make LostActions an Essenses permanent so grinding them isnt a time sink and money sink. As someone who only occasionally goes into Bozja, having to look up how to farm various things is annoying and often made faster/possible through other lost actions. I never end up staying long.

Farming to frm to do a dungeon. Its... just not a very fun way to spend time.

You can buy them from MB. Forgotten Fragment of Skills are cheap. You don't need the Deep Essence for DRN. Regular essence will do just fine. 5 people in DRN with essence is very fast. 30 minutes top + the 10 minute queue.

Part of bozja’s repeatability and why people still do it is explicitly tied to essences not being permanent, do you really think vets would join CLL or even try to save the prisoners for the rare essences if they were permanent

The profitability of essence farming is one of the things that keeps bozja and eureka alive

Why are threads revolving around old field contents are back up to the front page again? Did people just realized they’ve run out of contents they want to do from Endwalker, then stumbled upon older content that doesn’t conform to the ‘one and done’ formulae that they’ve conditioned to?

I’m glad they’re keeping logograms, essences & LAs the way they are.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Why are threads revolving around old field contents are back up to the front page again? Did people just realized they’ve run out of contents they want to do from Endwalker, then stumbled upon older content that doesn’t conform to the ‘one and done’ formulae that they’ve conditioned to?

I’m glad they’re keeping logograms, essences & LAs the way they are.

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The RNG aspect blows though but overall i am fine not being permanent(still wish the Bozja ones could have been similar to Eureka with the choice of combining to make specific skills etc).

Does this still pop often? Haven't done it in ages but remember it being some of the best bosses they ever released.

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Originally Posted by Asako

Does this still pop often? Haven't done it in ages but remember it being some of the best bosses they ever released.

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It is forced to pop after 10 minutes max and everyone in queue is thrown into it. You will get echo buff and you can do it solo (at least with a dispell or a shield to avoid doom from the last boss' tankbuster). Party Finder should work fine and you can easily clear it with 4-8 people effortless.