Viera males should be smaller like Au Ra females

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atreyu

Now you're putting words in my mouth. Well done.
The only issues I have with female Au Ra players are those who make them look underage on purpose.

---

Am I age blind? Because I have never looked at an Au Ra or Miqo'te and thought "Underaged".

(Lalafell are in a weird zone, where they kinda look like kids, but are kinda their own thing, and seeing them with mustaches and hearing some with deep adult voices makes me not consider them underaged, but I wouldn't want to see a scantily clad one.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

ITT: murdering pixels is A-Ok, but sexualizing pixels, especially pixels that resemble human children, is absolutely taboo how very dare you.

---

.............YEAH, IT'S STILL TABOO TO SEXUALIZE CHILDREN REGARDLESS OF YOUR MEDIA. Holy GODS. Was this post for real? Like, for real for real? It was thanks to the FFXIV Discord doing this that ALL partnered Discords had to remove their NSFW channels.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

It's still taboo to murder too.

---

https://i.imgur.com/ElPIGDE.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleChickenNugget

.............YEAH, IT'S STILL TABOO TO SEXUALIZE CHILDREN REGARDLESS OF YOUR MEDIA. Holy GODS. Was this post for real? Like, for real for real? It was thanks to the FFXIV Discord doing this that ALL partnered Discords had to remove their NSFW channels.

---

It's still taboo to murder too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

It's still taboo to murder too.

---

It's considered worse though for children, probably due to their innocence and helplessness. It's why you can kill nameless henchmen, but you can't kill kids. Whether it's instinct or taught, we feel the need to protect children as a human race.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

It's considered worse though for children, probably due to their innocence and helplessness. It's why you can kill nameless henchmen, but you can't kill kids.

---

I guess my issue here is, if we switch "pedophilia" with "murder," we're back to Jack Thompson vs GTA. In reality, murdering an enemy in a videogame has the exact same body count as sexualizing a video game character, age isn't a factor.

In ffxiv as well, we were treated to watching the sultana "die" of poisoning in some great detail.

Am I saying I want male viera to be twinks? Nah. It doesn't matter to me, as I mostly play ffxiv to raid, and prefer female au ra as a race anyway. I just think its a fun little double standard we're seeing right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

I guess my issue here is, if we switch "pedophilia" with "murder," we're back to Jack Thompson vs GTA. In reality, murdering an enemy in a videogame has the exact same body count as sexualizing a video game character, age isn't a factor.

In ffxiv as well, we were treated to watching the sultana "die" of poisoning in some great detail.

Am I saying I want male viera to be twinks? Nah. It doesn't matter to me, as I mostly play ffxiv to raid, and prefer female au ra as a race anyway. I just think its a fun little double standard we're seeing right now.

---

That is you presuming that we live those double standards well there is a reason why we do not or ever played that race.

When we spoke about players told us it was the same as the dwarf and gnome from WoW and since they could not copy gnome WoW models or concept due to intellectual property rights they had to choose other solution.

But you fail to see what is previously discussed is the behavior some players adopt to have SE as tool to do what they want and how they want, in the end we have no saying in such decisions.

What we really need is a fat male body type. Body type 4ever!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

I just think its a fun little double standard we're seeing right now.

---

Whereas I am trying to say there isn't a double standard. You're comparing a murder of an adult to a sexualisation of a child, which doesn't add up.

You can sexualise adults in games, you can kill adults in games, nobody bats an eye.

But killing children, and sexualising children are both no-go zones in games, as people find both horrifying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Awha

What we really need is a fat male body type. Body type 4ever!

---

Yeah, 100% agreed. Fatqo'te when.

Hey SE if you want to solve the problem with rabbit males for the ones who want it just give them this.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20150912153039

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zeonx

Hey SE if you want to solve the problem with rabbit males for the ones who want it just give them this.

---

I could just imagine the horror of trying to fit any armour on that.

Inb4 instead of just helm, all armour pieces are hidden.

Please no. They don't need to be buff, but if I wanted to play a short guy I would be using my Miqo'te more.

Well i know many don't like bringing lore into it. The little we know of male is as they marture they leave to live on there own and become almost feral like protectors of viera land. Well i am not against a more petite esque male race. Idk if male viera fits that.

I would also like to add that I personally would prefer that there not be a massive size difference between the males and female. It feels odd enough as is with the au ra.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Whereas I am trying to say there isn't a double standard. You're comparing a death of an adult to a sexualisation of a child, which doesn't add up.

You can sexualise adults in games, you can kill adults in games, nobody bats and eye.

But killing children, and sexualising children are both no-go zones in games, as people find both horrifying.

---

I know you specifically outlined your feelings about lalafell and their age range; for what its worth I agree with you completely. But many consider lalafell children, and if you dare argue that you're a pedo.

When I bring up the sultana's poisoning, it's more to bring up this game has no qualms killing lalafell on screen in detail. We watched Papalymo die somewhat on screen too. We saw Teledji Adeledji get cleaved in half practically on scree . We've also faced down and killed lalafellin adversaries before. So in the vein that "All lalas are kids" we've seen kids die on screen and killed them.

A short race from a jungle would make sense tbh, their smaller size would be better for moving between trees and pushing through the undergrowth.
If they had to be stealthy, less weight would break less branches and make less noise.

I am, however, going to drop that particular subject. I realize my musing is far outside the current Overton Window; I probably should have never said anything at all to be honest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

I know you specifically outlined your feelings about lalafell and their age range; for what its worth I agree with you completely. But many consider lalafell children, and if you dare argue that you're a pedo.

When I bring up the sultana's poisoning, it's more to bring up this game has no qualms killing lalafell on screen in detail. We watched Papalymo die somewhat on screen too. We saw Teledji Adeledji get cleaved in half practically on scree . We've also faced down and killed lalafellin adversaries before. So in the vein that "All lalas are kids" we've seen kids die on screen and killed them.

---

The lalafell we have seen die in the game are not children though. They look like children, but they aren't, they are just as strong and intelligent as other races in the game. So it's considered "fine" to kill them.
It is not okay to sexualise them though because it says more about the person doing it, rather than the lalafell itself.

Sure, it's theoretically fine to dress them up scantily, they aren't being abused, but there is kinda something wrong with you if gets you off seeing scantily clad lalafell, as they lack any adult sexual attributes that humans have.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zeonx

Hey SE if you want to solve the problem with rabbit males for the ones who want it just give them this.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20150912153039

---

In that case the rage in forums would be biblical because doesn't match their ideals.

I personally consider that Male Viera should be adults same size of the females and strong I compare them as Tarzan since the forest is their ground they should have developed strong muscle mass and agile movements, but no I do not imagine them no way near to sadomasoc outfits like fanart suggests and the leather would be a result from their hunts but normal leather outfits to cover all skin from branch scratch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shiroxkatsuya

Well i know many don't like bringing lore into it. The little we know of male is as they marture they leave to live on there own and become almost feral like protectors of viera land. Well i am not against a more petite esque male race. Idk if male viera fits that.

---

If we bring up lore then Male Viera and Female Viera are quite indistinguishable until they are matured. So they would barely look like a male once they become an Adult. One who is nearing the end of their life span probably do not look so androgynous. So the question relies on how matured into their lifespan are the male Vieras for the players. Both male Hyur and male Elezen have masculine and not old bodies but there are face presets that look 70ish years old. As for Humans in real life some people still look 18 well into their 30s. In Asian regions this more easily achieved than Western parts of the world. Not to say that Westerners can't look young while they are 30 but the food of your culture that you partake in does help shape how you look.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Umeikoai

If we bring up lore then Male Viera and Female Viera are quite indistinguishable until they are matured. So they would barely look like a male once they become an Adult. One who is nearing the end of their life span probably do not look so androgynous. So the question relies on how matured into their lifespan are the male Vieras for the players. Both male Hyur and male Elezen have masculine and not old bodies but there are face presets that look 70ish years old. As for Humans in real life some people still look 18 well into their 30s. In Asian regions this more easily achieved than Western parts of the world. Not to say that Westerners can't look young while they are 30 but the food of your culture that you partake in does help shape how you look.

---

That is interesting because the males from real life native tribes that still exist around the world that cohabit the forest and have no access to plastic or cosmetic surgery all have their appearance matching their ages, except Hunza Pakistan tribe not sure if it is genetic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Agaziel

That is interesting because the males from real life native tribes that still exist around the world that cohabit the forest and have no access to plastic or cosmetic surgery all have their appearance matching their ages, except Hunza Pakistan tribe not sure if it is genetic.

---

Not everyone needs to have plastic surgery or cosmetics to look young. Genetics and the amount of Estrogen you have does help with having a more youthful look without any modifications. But it's not like Final Fantasy 14 is realistic in any way. You have Cat Girl tribes who all look like super models but are somehow suppose to be fierce and strong. You have female Au Ras tribes who all look like Porcelain dolls but are also suppose to be fierce and strong. Then there are lalafells who don't even look like they age aside from Tataru in one part for gags. Even Papashan is young looking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Agaziel

That is interesting because the males from real life native tribes that still exist around the world that cohabit the forest and have no access to plastic or cosmetic surgery all have their appearance matching their ages, except Hunza Pakistan tribe not sure if it is genetic.

---

It highly depends on what you consider as "matching their ages", though. Anyway, since female vieras live in forests, too, in case if there will be a place for males in game, their appearance can be based on females in terms of how young/tall/slender/muscular they look. And it's up for devteam to decide how should they look. Imo, their 1st concept art from HW was suitable enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zeonx

Hey SE if you want to solve the problem with rabbit males for the ones who want it just give them this.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20150912153039

---

Violent flashbacks to Roger and Jessica Rabbit dynamics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Umeikoai

If we bring up lore then Male Viera and Female Viera are quite indistinguishable until they are matured. So they would barely look like a male once they become an Adult.

---

No, it doesn't mean that at all. They are indistinguishable as children, and their gender becomes clear when they mature.

That means an adult male Viera is no longer indistiguishable from a female. They become visibly male.

Can't forget that females can also become wood-wardens as well, if there's something that's down to lithe small assassin like hunters, I doubt their 'body' has anything to do with it since the females can also pick up the mantle. The only difference is that the females have a choice to pick up the mantle, the males are forced.

I'm still hoping the males have jack-a-lope horns~

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Umeikoai

Not everyone needs to have plastic surgery or cosmetics to look young. Genetics and the amount of Estrogen you have does help with having a more youthful look without any modifications. But it's not like Final Fantasy 14 is realistic in any way. You have Cat Girl tribes who all look like super models but are somehow suppose to be fierce and strong. You have female Au Ras tribes who all look like Porcelain dolls but are also suppose to be fierce and strong. Then there are lalafells who don't even look like they age aside from Tataru in one part for gags. Even Papashan is young looking.

---

really? Very interesting indeed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Halivel

It highly depends on what you consider as "matching their ages", though. Anyway, since female vieras live in forests, too, in case if there will be a place for males in game, their appearance can be based on females in terms of how young/tall/slender/muscular they look. And it's up for devteam to decide how should they look. Imo, their 1st concept art from HW was suitable enough.

---

In the biological or physical anthropological perspective of each real world tribe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

No, it doesn't mean that at all. They are indistinguishable as children, and their gender becomes clear when they mature.

That means an adult male Viera is no longer indistiguishable from a female. They become visibly male.

---

Considering that it takes 13 years to barely find out something is a male is pretty ridiculous. Also the fact that Male Vieras retain a Youthful look for over 200 years that's "nigh impossible to discern one's age from outward appearances". I don't see a problem with a male looking similar to Fran or any other female Viera we've seen. Of course they wouldn't have a bust or as many curves but facial wise they'd still be young looking like Fran. Fran must be really old considering how mad she was at Vaan talking about her age in FF12 all the way into FF14 where she doesn't even look like she aged.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Umeikoai

Considering that it takes 13 years to barely find out something is a male is pretty ridiculous. Also the fact that Male Vieras retain a Youthful look for over 200 years that's "nigh impossible to discern one's age from outward appearances". I don't see a problem with a male looking similar to Fran or any other female Viera we've seen. Of course they wouldn't have a bust or as many curves but facial wise they'd still be young looking like Fran. Fran must be really old considering how mad she was at Vaan talking about her age in FF12 all the way into FF14 where she doesn't even look like she aged.

---

Even so I can't imagine them being with teenager faces much less too much slim so sorry not even with your lore explanations I can't figure them out the way you describe,
I imagine them much more like tall due to adaptation to reach the highest provisions and spots in the forest and with adult faces shaped by the exposure of the weather changes and athletic bodies where you see the muscular mass due to adapt a life in the forest where they have to be agile enough to run from other beasts that want to eat their faces or they need strength to hunt for surviving and the use of intelligence for protection of their tribe.
We talking about a forest with tall trees.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Agaziel

Even so I can't imagine them being with teenager faces much less too much slim so sorry not even with your lore explanations I can't figure them out the way you describe, I imagine them much more like tall adults with adult faces and athletic bodies where you see the muscular mass due to adapt a life in the forest where they have to be agile enough to run from other beasts that want to eat their faces or they need strength to hunt for surviving and the use of intelligence for protection of their tribe .

---

Doesn't Male Au Ra already fit that? They are tall with athletic bodies with very manly faces that protect their tribe and are very agile because of all the hunting they do. Then again everyone is agile in this game. A Lalafell can go stand off against Roes. Not to mention that Roes can be a dragoon with dragoon jumps and flips. Fran is depicted as fierce and beautiful. If the game was realistic in the slightest, Fran wouldn't look the way she does at all. Nothing about her outfit or heels is in anyway good for hunting or fighting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Umeikoai

Doesn't Male Au Ra already fit that? They are tall with athletic bodies with very manly faces that protect their tribe and are very agile because of all the hunting they do. Then again everyone is agile in this game. A Lalafell can go stand off against Roes. Not to mention that Roes can be a dragoon with dragoon jumps and flips.

---

And? You have lala equivalent to gnomes and you will have dwarf with a similar appearance to lala.
But I could give you the same narrative don't you have slim and small size males in game like miqo-te.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Agaziel

And? You have lala equivalent to gnomes and you will have dwarf with a similar appearance to lala.
But I could give you the same narrative don't you have slim and small size males in game like miqo-te.

---

I wouldn't say a Miqote is at all similar to a Viera. Male miqotes are very feral with no elegance or grace to them. You ever see their run? It is very feral. Their bodies are quite toned as well. I wouldn't really call them slim. Nothing about how Vieras that have been depicted in the games make them out to be savagely brutish in their demeanor. Vieras also seem to go for that super model look especially from the trailer released for their race.

While having a smaller male would be interesting, i think i remember something about males being slightly larger, more aggressive and animalistic than females. This can be seen in the official concepts that they did a few years ago where the males has broader shoulders and more animalistic big bunny feet and hands. It could also be just the way they shaded the art, but it also looked like they had a short layer of fur on them, near the shoulders.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Umeikoai

Considering that it takes 13 years to barely find out something is a male is pretty ridiculous.

---

For the average human, yes. But it's actually possible even in reality.

I feel like I've overposted this article lately when discussing theoretical Viera development, but there's an actual genetic condition where a developing baby doesn't respond properly to a particular hormone, and are born looking female - but they're actually male and it only kicks in at puberty. It's super rare in the general human population, but has become reasonably common in one particular area.

Sound familiar?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

For the average human, yes. But it's actually possible even in reality.

I feel like I've overposted this article lately when discussing theoretical Viera development, but there's an actual genetic condition where a developing baby doesn't respond properly to a particular hormone, and are born looking female - but they're actually male and it only kicks in at puberty. It's super rare in the general human population, but has become reasonably common in one particular area.

Sound familiar?

---

So interesting thanks in advance for the article.
I guess is ok we share different art concept for Male Viera never saw them delicate much less teenager faces as Umeikoai describes due to their hunters and protector forest way of life.

Concept art depicting a male Viera monk and a female Viera bard

https://i.redd.it/5ijr7xopqsx11.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Corue

Concept art depicting a male Viera monk and a female Viera bard

https://i.redd.it/5ijr7xopqsx11.jpg

---

So he's a little reformed?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

For the average human, yes. But it's actually possible even in reality.

I feel like I've overposted this article lately when discussing theoretical Viera development, but there's an actual genetic condition where a developing baby doesn't respond properly to a particular hormone, and are born looking female - but they're actually male and it only kicks in at puberty. It's super rare in the general human population, but has become reasonably common in one particular area.

Sound familiar?

---

Even past puberty plenty of males still look more like their mothers than the ideal hypermasculine male. Sure they may have a little bit wider shoulders or neck but just because they hit puberty doesn't mean instantly they look like He-Man now. It's nothing new to Japan either. Nor is it extremely foreign to Korea. Just look at their Kpop idols. Most of the males in ff14 have pretty wide shoulders aside from Lalafells. Roes and Elezens are the extremely wide. Even a male miqote has pretty wide shoulders compared to a good portion of real males. But in all honesty the body proportions of having a masculine male viera and a more feminine one can be easily addressed in the game by having 2 clans. In an efficient workflow they'd have a base model and then just scale the bones without affecting any animations or rigging. This would create vastly different silhouettes with very little effort. The clothes would already be rigged on one of them and doing a simple bone scale would make the outfit fit smoothly anyways. Most standard MMOs have this. Even Dark Souls has this. It doesn't need to be ingame either because any industry standard 3d program can do it. If you ever made a character for any game then you'd know how easy it is just scale down bones on an already rigged model. Even the height slider in this game is nothing but a simple scale adjustment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xbahax92

Tbh those are your prejudices. While I said that I merely thought of the description of a shota, being young small boys. And while not everyone got perverted minds, lollis are wanted as much. So we dont need to act like "omg everyone is just a pedo".
We have lalafell after all, which might not be kids but resemble them in a way.

---

Saying "we want shotas or lolis" is indeed not a good look, so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

ITT: murdering pixels is A-Ok, but sexualizing pixels, especially pixels that resemble human children, is absolutely taboo how very dare you.

---

Hm, it's almost like sexualizing children in any form is wrong.

How that's a hot take is a real mystery.