100M GIL taken

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

If you allow 100M gil to be taken, then you deserve it to be taken.

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Now actually go back and read the thread.

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Originally Posted by ToasterMan

Now actually go back and read the thread.

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Yes, and he created an officer rank and gave it to a random person which allowed him to do these things. Only FC master's fault here. Is there anything else you'd like to add?

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Yes, and he created an officer rank and gave it to a random person which allowed him to do these things. Only FC master's fault here. Is there anything else you'd like to add?

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Little more to it my friend.

FC leader here made someone an officer rank in order to buy FC buffs, not knowing that SE decided to defy security standards followed by the entire world, as well as logic, when designing the promoting privileges. A thief took advantage of SE's stupidity and here we are.

What disturbs me even more, is that there are people that are willing to put the entire community at risk just so they don't have to deal with their bad FC leaders bailing on them.

Is it even possible for an officer to demote a FC Master? And even if it's possible, why give an officer rank such privilegies?

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Is it even possible for an officer to demote a FC Master? And even if it's possible, why give an officer rank such privilegies?

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Thank the twelve thats the only thing that isnt possible - what IS possible however: demote/promote to ANY rank but master - even if its actually a rank above yours because the game implies a hierachie but doesnt regconize one (and is really bad at communicating this)

People should trust less other random people. If I were a FC Master there would be only one person who could withdraw money from FC chest.

That would be me. And TC's situation would never happen.

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Originally Posted by ToasterMan

Little more to it my friend.

FC leader here made someone an officer rank in order to buy FC buffs, not knowing that...

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And there you have your issue. Ignorance is never an excuse. Besides, the ignorance you are referring to isn't even relevant, seeing as the leader should NEVER have even given him the ability to promote/demote at all (regardless of knowing how it worked). He should have made a custom rank that only had permission to use FC buffs.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

People should trust less other random people. If I were a FC Master there would be only one person who could withdraw money from FC chest.

That would be me. And TC's situation would never happen.

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That might not always be a 100% practical though - look at the housing situation for example. Most FCs might be saving up for a home, so in case one opens up wouldnt it be very unfortuante for the guildmaster to be the only one being able to take care of that? You're basically committing yourself to be around 24/7.
The current problem is: while the game allows you to share the burden of a guilde master, it doesnt allow you to regulate those properly - its always "all or nothing".
Seeing how broken the promotion-system is for example - you might want to have officer-ranks with basically the same rights you have, to ensure that you have trustworthy people running the FC for you while you're away. And someone might offer to handle lower promotions etc. - but since you cant regulate the system you cant give away those rights since they could promote someone to the top-ranks now. So that clearly needs fixing.

About the money... I think a limit how much each person can take out of the chest within a day would help a great deal here.

Being a guilde master isnt as easy as you might imagine it - specially not with a broken system like this. You're always sitting there, having all the power and people asking you if you cant share a bit of it so they can do stuff in the FC they would like - gardening, airships, memember managment, decorating... - and you always have to balance out how much risk and how much dictator you want to be right now

I am more bothered by the fact the GM did not help me recover. It was easy for me to figure out that helping would be the right thing to do. they can see the conversation where the person said wanted to help with fc. wanted to handle buffs. then the person promoted them self to a high rank and stole all the gil plus did not help the FC but dismantling all 4 rank 50 airships. Instead of helping me they blamed me and I do not see how that is fair to blame this on me. Either way it's what they chose to do and I can't do anything about it. They should be able to help someone at least the first time something horrible happens. In FFXI, I once made a mistake and threw away something. I had thought I lost it forever but they restored it as a one time help. It would have been fine by me for them to say this is a one time restore now you know don't let i it happen again. especially when what is lost represents the 900+ playtime of the individual who was stolen from.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

And there you have your issue. Ignorance is never an excuse. Besides, the ignorance you are referring to isn't even relevant, seeing as the leader should NEVER have even given him the ability to promote/demote at all (regardless of knowing how it worked). He should have made a custom rank that only had permission to use FC buffs.

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We've already had this argument. Multiple people have told you that you shouldn't deviate from standards that the entire WORLD follows and not even have the decency to tell you that they did it. Obviously the FC leader trusted the guy enough to give him permission to buy FC buffs, not promote himself to the rank that has access to the chest (Which nobody should be able to do) and take all of the money. No rational person would be able to predict that would happen. I don't know why I'm even bothering with this reply because you're just going to ignore me, and everyone else anyway.

To be fair: FFXIV has a "one time item restore"-help aswell - but that is for ONE item that you threw away by mistake - I'm really sorry about your loss and it sucks that the GMs cant and wont do anything about it, but at the end of the day you lost that stuff due to a mistake that their system cant really fix (also: those items still exist in the game or at least you didnt threw them away, so the GMs cant just create another 100 million gil to give to you - lets just not imagine all the exploits there...). And I also can see why they cant just go and take it from said person - so as much as it sucks: There is only a lesson to be learned here

...and the name mentioned. Somewhere. In case you havent done it yet...

Is death by stone still valid?, we just got to erase/penalize a few to start putting an example.
Really sad for what happened to the OP...must have taken ages to get what he got so someone can steal it just like that...

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Originally Posted by Shaemus_Jodocus

I am more bothered by the fact the GM did not help me recover. It was easy for me to figure out that helping would be the right thing to do. they can see the conversation where the person said wanted to help with fc. wanted to handle buffs. then the person promoted them self to a high rank and stole all the gil plus did not help the FC but dismantling all 4 rank 50 airships. Instead of helping me they blamed me and I do not see how that is fair to blame this on me. Either way it's what they chose to do and I can't do anything about it. They should be able to help someone at least the first time something horrible happens. In FFXI, I once made a mistake and threw away something. I had thought I lost it forever but they restored it as a one time help. It would have been fine by me for them to say this is a one time restore now you know don't let i it happen again. especially when what is lost represents the 900+ playtime of the individual who was stolen from.

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Let's take this one point at a time:

1) They can't help you because there's no guarantee this isn't fraud. They don't know that you didn't collude with the person who stole from you. Also, because you gave him permission, they can't just take the assets away from him.

2) You can't see how it's fair they are blaming you? Why did you give him a rank that had the ability to promote/demote? Even if you couldn't promote above your rank, that's still not a permission you should have given him. Should have created a rank that just has FC buff permissions.

In cases like this, you know the culprit an notified the GMs, let's say they don't get your stuff back,what happen to the culprit, does he/she keeps everything or does it gets remove from them ?

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Originally Posted by vigioX-Sun

what happen to the culprit, does he/she keeps everything or does it gets remove from them ?

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SE has a rule that they won't disclose what actions are taken against any individual player, so we'll likely never know for sure.
I'm hoping they got a permanent ban for something like this. :(

the person acct on the lodestone has been completely removed. I'd know if they changed names or servers. They are simply gone.

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Originally Posted by Shaemus_Jodocus

the person acct on the lodestone has been completely removed. I'd know if they changed names or servers. They are simply gone.

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Who knows? The Shadow knows.

A simple character name change will take care of that for you, and since there is no way to track name changes, anyone with a terrible reputation (such as the alleged thief in this case) is but a small payment away from a new name and face and completely clean reputation.

Which...completely...sucks!

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Who knows? The Shadow knows.

A simple character name change will take care of that for you, and since there is no way to track name changes, anyone with a terrible reputation (such as the alleged thief in this case) is but a small payment away from a new name and face and completely clean reputation.

Which...completely...sucks!

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Google knows! (well.. google knows everything, oviously..)
You can find the link to the new character name if you haven't already blacklisted them. If they are already in your blist the name in it will change to match the update if they're still on your server.

I really with SE would fix the obviously lacking permissions system. You should never be able to promote someone else to or above your own rank. It defies all sense, and none of the arguments to the contrary in this thread change that. You should also be able to limit the amount of withdrawals someone can make from the bank in a certain period of time.

To those that said you shouldn't be giving promote permissions to anyone, have you never been in a guild/FC that allowed officers to promote lower ranked members? Ever heard of delegating?

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Originally Posted by Shaemus_Jodocus

the person acct on the lodestone has been completely removed. I'd know if they changed names or servers. They are simply gone.

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Go to google, type in their old name and add "lodestone", it should show you their new name as one of the top links.

This only works if the name change was somewhat recent, after a few months Google stops associating the previous name with their lodestone link.

hi all i'm back starting from rank 1 free company. stormclan.

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Originally Posted by Shaemus_Jodocus

hi all i'm back starting from rank 1 free company. stormclan.

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Good for you. Remember to check the rights properly before setting up the new rank!

That sounds like an exploit, promoting yourself over your own rank is a real big security risk in an FC. A person should only be allowed to downgrade their own rank if they wished, not raise it or things like this would happen.

I'm so sorry that this happened to you, OP...

During my time with FFXIV, this is the third case I have heard of this happening, and this one is the worst yet. The music of Zenith plays strongly in my head.

Fact of the matter is that no amount of hindsight will bring your stuff back to you. It's helpful going forward, but does nothing for you in the present. What I would like to bring to light is that many people suffer great losses: Investors go broke; farmers lose crops; entrepreneurs' businesses fail; the undefeated suffer their first loss. Somehow, someway though, some of them find a way to pick themselves up and start anew and it is extremely respectable and admirable when they do.

You still have what's on your person, retainers, and armoire. You also have the resources to reacquire what you've lost, and anything you were hoarding needed to go anyway. You haven't lost everything. All that is needed now is to expose this asshole all over social media. Also remember that stories like yours enlighten those who are easily trusting of the filth that is out there. You've likely saved at least one other FC from undergoing the same thing.

Watch your ranks very carefully Promote/demote should got to your second in command, all demolition should go to you and you alone, even though I have my second in command set to have all permissions I have, only because my FC is lead by me and my friend. Gil access should go to you as well, no one else.

While it sucks to be robbed blind, there is nothing you can do to get your stuff back, just pick yourself up and rebuild and use your misfortune as a learning experience.

Shame them.
SHAME THEM TIL IT HURTS.

There's two ranks in my FC that can change rank. One is mine as leader, the second contains my alt. I wouldn't give my own mom that power, even if she did play. I've heard too many stories like this. Control of the chest will be slightly more lax.

I don't see why SE doesn't fix that problem. It makes no sense to allow.

At this point this is kind of a rite of passage for FC leaders, for me it was 5 mil worth of crystals stolen. It sucks that the devs won't police this but also won't give us any ability to police it ourselves.. for now, all you can do is learn from this and start over. Every company chest transaction in my FC now goes through me, no one can promote/demote except me and only people who have proven loyalty are even allowed to play with the Gardens, airships and furnishings.

It's a shame because I want to trust my members to use the facilities provided without supervision, but then there's always that one guy who ruins it for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Shaemus_Jodocus

I don't think I am allowed to say name or share screenshots. It's not about shaming anyone, I am just seeking advice. I am pretty hurt at the loss and motivation is low for the game.

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I'm usually against the naming and shaming, but something like this? They could easily do it again to another FC if people don't know they need to watch out for this person. Plus, people like this individual...I don't really think they deserve to get away with a clean rep.

The FC I was in with my friends (I'm now in a solo FC for personal reasons) invited a member who completely cleaned us out of everything except gil, because only two people had access to it (FC master and his second in command). Some digging and we learned we weren't the first they'd done this to, and we caught them in other FCs after ours. We warned the leaders about them, and eventually they either got banned or gave up (at least on that character).

You can learn from this experience. I'm with the others saying it's best to always not trust people fully unless you know them personally. After this incident, we stopped recruiting in our FC, and adjusted ranks accordingly. If your FC was strong, I would definitely recommend rebuilding. I think you could use the support of your old FC mates, especially since you say you feel so unmotivated to play now. Unfortunately, it's been well-documented that GMs will not get involved in inter-FC disputes unless it involves serious harassment/hazing, or other things against the game ToS. Unfortunately, since this person was promoted and that rank had full access to promotion/demotion, the GMs won't get involved, or replace lost items because the way the ranks were set up. Which really sucks, because it's not really the fault of the FC or its members for wanting to be trustful. Unfortunately, it's just the way it is. :/

I'm really sorry this happened to you guys.

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Originally Posted by Shaemus_Jodocus

opinion. Should I give up?

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Do like what i did, get the bastard by blackmail him, picture excatly everything you can and even try get his account ID name, the one he cant name change and post it up here and on lodestone.
I had my chest taken in similar thing, lucky he couldnt go above my rank as i was fc lead, my reckless way i was new with settings so he had access to anything when i inv him.
Took all my gil and left. So i pictures the history and that he left and so even examen him and lucky he did had ps4 account so i pictured that and he was caught out on forum and lodestone and i did pm him about i would make hell for him and he would have so many ppl hating him and its already starting, he begged for remove and i said well after you give it back and i will remove.
He payed back and i let him be at piece. :)
GM didnt helped me. I took action myself

You know, I'm not going to post I feel sorry for you, never have on these threads (you can look for yourself). Most people will not tell you the honest truth (shout out to the 5% who do) I'm direct and blunt. You have you, yourself alone to blame. You should have set the FC permissions properly to begin with. Everyone thinks its the cool thing to be the FC leader - it's not. It appears you (may) have had a house also, you are lucky they did not demolish that also, which they could of if your #2 had that permission.

GM's will NEVER, I repeat, NEVER do anything about these situations. They had the permission to do it in SE's eyes. Where did that permission stem from? You, the FC leader, which in their eyes, is saying you gave them permission to do so (along with what everyone else had access to in permissions).

I do agree, though, that SE should fix this issue about promoting/demoting, they have largely been silent on it. Instead of filing a GM ticket everytime this happens (huge waste of your time), maybe it would be more productive to get a thread started trying to get SE to make an official response about fixing this permission?

P.S. give up the shaming and naming game. It is -extremely- hard to do in this game unless you copy down their lodestone ID (which most forget to do before the next step I'm about to say happens). You can freely change your name and appearance and name at a snap of a finger. What're you going to do then if you don't get their Lodestone ID before they change their name / race?

Going to make this as a bullet in case anyone happens to search in the feature! Since this is current as of this posting.

1) SE will never do anything about "someone had access to this, but they took an item I didn't want them to take". Why? You gave them the permission to that box / item / whatever the case may be.
2) Instead of filing a GM ticket (telling you now, you are wasting your time, despite popular belief on this forum, and why would you want to do that?), create a productive post and try to get a official response from SE (which no one has done to the best of my knowledge, I know shocking right?). Search all over this forum and I bet you cant find a single post where they actually restored someones items from this issue.
3) Set your rank permissions properly. It's not a cool kid thing to be a FC leader. You have actual obligations (one being to set the permissions right).
4) Refrain from name shaming, unless you have their unique lodestone ID... otherwise, you, again are wasting your time (again, if you did the first part of step 2).
5) Move on and rebuild. It really isn't hard to make 95% of the furniture.

Till the next thread about this same issue (because no one will step up and do #2)~ Have a great morning!

Never let anyone but yourself have access to the FC funds. Depositing is fine, but not withdrawing.
If they need Gil for anything you can give it to them. It may seem mean, but that's what you have to do.

(I think I left a commend here before. not sure)

Thats why I play alone! My own chars in there own guild! o_O

An execption are my closed friends, wich I know in person!

Completely understand your loss of motivation, but I hope you can find the inspiration to keep going, because the game is better off with you in it rather than just the person who stole from you and your company. Your community appreciates that you're there, so at least remember that when you're making the choice.

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Originally Posted by Nyerieri

I do agree, though, that SE should fix this issue about promoting/demoting, they have largely been silent on it. Instead of filing a GM ticket everytime this happens (huge waste of your time), maybe it would be more productive to get a thread started trying to get SE to make an official response about fixing this permission?

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Well, I'm still not inclined to blame the OP, as no other MMO does things like this. The last official response was made before FC Leadership auto-transferred if the FC leader didn't log in. So, the reasons Square gave for keeping the ability to promote above your own rank then, are no longer valid.

In the light of that, perhaps we could get an official response on this thread. Hopefully it's large enough for somebody to have noticed it. We've identified the problem it has caused a lot of problems for quite a few FCs and as far as I know, only one person didn't want to see it changed.

you could make a Bug Report about the self-promoting. at least you will get a respond then if it's actually a failure in the game or "working as intended". but keep in mind to fill the correct format out, otherwise they will not answer.

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Originally Posted by Tint

you could make a Bug Report about the self-promoting. at least you will get a respond then if it's actually a failure in the game or "working as intended". but keep in mind to fill the correct format out, otherwise they will not answer.

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There's a difference between a software bug and bad design. This is just bad design.

If the specs simply say that the ability to change people's rank is granted by that leader-set promote/demote option, but therefore being able to promote yourself or promote someone to above your own rank is an unintended consequence, the only part that would qualify as a "bug" would be if someone was able to do it without that option set.

It sounds more like this is a bad outcome but still matches the designed specs. (In other words, its those specs that are broken, not the coding of the software.) They'll throw that back as "working as intended" until the specs change, even if it's not how the designers wanted it used.

I think devs should leave things as they are as it teaches a valuable life lesson to those that do not properly read & utilize permissions that are in place already in the menus. Promoting someone without any real thought, should never be done at any level.

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Originally Posted by Doki

I think devs should leave things as they are as it teaches a valuable life lesson to those that do not properly read & utilize permissions that are in place already in the menus. Promoting someone without any real thought, should never be done at any level.

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We're paying customers, not their kids. Nowhere does it point out that the permission to promote allows you to promote above your level and the use of the term hierarchy in game would lead one to believe the system works in a way that disallows such.

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Originally Posted by Doki

I think devs should leave things as they are as it teaches a valuable life lesson to those that do not properly read & utilize permissions that are in place already in the menus. Promoting someone without any real thought, should never be done at any level.

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Because the tooltip totally warns you that someone can promote another above the station of the promoter. Solid logic.