Confusion: Archer to Bard? Where is the Ranger Job?

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

You dont know?!

http://www.google.com/url?source=img...Xwa3In_0NX9Gmwhttp://www.google.com/url?source=img...JNYKk327L0pciQ

It's the hat.

In all seriousness though, they don't really play the same imo, but that could just be me.

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The pot leaf hat. I miss it

After reading through many posts, I have only seen a handful of logical ones. The rest of them are usually angry archers.

As someone said around pages 5-8, Ranged Melee DPS has been flawed in just about all modern MMOs.

The trend is this:
1. NEW MMO made.
2. Many people pick the bow using class
3. The bow class is op because of kiting, ranged skills, high dps, and LOW RISK.
4. DEVS nerf the ranged class because they realized the lack of risk is not proportionate to the dps
5. people cry
6. people cry some more
7. they buff them a little
8. the class is still lack luster but people have accepted it
9. overall nothing was really done

So, why is archer not becoming a ranger? Because they would not get anything relatively new. Let us think. What would you give ranger BESIDES similar abilities that are stronger? Outside a new weaponskill it would just encounter the same issue that caused it to be nerfed.

What will likely happen is... in the future you can become a musketeer, gunner, marskman or whatever you want to consider it that uses a gun with elemental bullets. Heck, you may even get to be the beastmaster of this game later on. Also just so people know... FFXIV is following the job trends of Final Fantasy Tactics/Advanced/Advanced 2

So ranger may become a Hunter in the future, capture/tame monsters, cause them to de-aggro, temporary charm, or possibly become an incapacitation specialist of sorts. A flat out boost in DPS, I do not see in Archer's future. Sorry.

i see alot of people wanted bard to get dancer, maybe archer will get dancer too, hahhahaha. speaking of which, the elven dance emote is the worst.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

From Merriam-Webster:

Archer - A person who uses a bow and arrow

Ranger - 1. A soldiers or armed men who range over a region as law enforcement.
2. A soldier especially trained in close-range fighting and in raiding tactics.

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so going by that, there is no reason why ranger should be archer at all. any dd could be ranger?

@mouse, waka ff10 was a ranger?, learn something new every day

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Originally Posted by grandm

@mouse, waka ff10 was a ranger?, learn something new every day

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"I'mma let you finish, but just so you know..."
WAKKA WAS ONE OF THE GREATEST RANGERS OF ALL TIME! ALL TIME! ~Bruddah

^i'm not disagreeing, its not that i didn't think he was a ranger. more i didn't know. but i can't pigeon hole him with anyother job, so it makes sense, hes far to bright for ninja

I know right haha. Ninja Wakka >.>; Either way. I'm leveling archer to 50 just for bard haha.

Funny enough, if you head to the Final Fantasy Wikia and pop over to the RANGER page, you'll notice a very large picture of Wakka is the pages representative image. You're right, though - it's ALMOST a fallacy.

Members of FFX are generally two jobs in one. For instance, Rikku is a Thief and Chemist, Khimari is a Dragoon and Blue Mage, and Tidus is Warrior and Time Mage,

Wakka was pretty much a Ranger and Red Mage together; he didn't have a bow, but he could hit enemies from the farthest away, and was the only member that could hit aerial mobs reliably.

This would make him primarily ranger, in addition to damage, he delivers darkness based status effects like Darkness, Sleep, Blind, Silence, etc.

Funny enough, Ranger + Red Mage is hard to distinguish from Archer - which is why he doesn't have a bow.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...der/index.html

See Chart
Order of the Twin Adder Organization

God's Quiver(Quivers' Hold)
-Ranger unit charged with neutralizing external threats, captained by Bowlord Lewin

Wood Wailers(Wailing Barracks)
-Ranger unit charged with preserving the peace within the city-state, captained by Swethyna

SE already considers Archers and Lancers to be rangers. :)

(Sorry if someone already posted this... did not read the whole thread :) )

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Originally Posted by Klive

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...der/index.html

See Chart
Order of the Twin Adder Organization

God's Quiver(Quivers' Hold)
-Ranger unit charged with neutralizing external threats, captained by Bowlord Lewin

Wood Wailers(Wailing Barracks)
-Ranger unit charged with preserving the peace within the city-state, captained by Swethyna

SE already considers Archers and Lancers to be rangers. :)

(Sorry if someone already posted this... did not read the whole thread :) )

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Aye, we touched on it for a slight second a while back; easy to miss!

IMHO, this use of the word ranger has nothing to do with proper labels (nouns) but is an adjective that carries the definition traditional to Ranger (IE: A soldier, mercenary, whathaveyou that ranges over a territory).

The Gods' Quiver stations archers throughout the Shroud in watchtowers, while the Wood Wailers keep the peace on the ground in the city and around it. They RANGE over the territory. Like a park ranger. Or a military ranger.

Note the slight difference between that and a FFXI pew pew pew (throw, fire, shoot any weapon that can be aimed at something far away) Ranger and the Final Fantasy XIV Forums pew pew pew (I don't understand the difference between Archer and Ranger because I'm too focused on the bow to realize it's only a necessity for one of those) Ranger.

Well imo ranger will be there maybe in the 2nd wave, might be as someone said earlier like a hunter with a pet, new MMO's use this kind of class lately, im hoping that with musketeer and archer we'll see this job, but i dont think that will be as powerful as rng in XI because of the pet, but who knows....

we dont know everything yet they just gave us a taste, it would be WTF to not have a ranger at atleast we'll be getting 7 more jobs when 1.21 hits.

they should do 2 jobs per class for different play styles.

pug = monk
gla = paladin
arc = bard >.>
lnc = dragoon

possible:
thm = blm ?
cnj = whm ?
mrd = warrior?

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Originally Posted by indira

we dont know everything yet they just gave us a taste, it would be WTF to not have a ranger at atleast we'll be getting 7 more jobs when 1.21 hits.

they should do 2 jobs per class for different play styles.

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You can feel free to take away the question marks; the rest is right. While I wish that a single class could unlock multiple jobs, and while Yoshida-san said there are no plans at all for ever having anything other than a 1-to-1 ratio at this time, I still can't bring myself to even consider it an option. I think it'd be really great to take a little more of the grind out of having battle options, but... this is an MMO we're playing here.

They may have taken the grind out of Jobs because role and weapon have always skilled up in different ways, but I'm not sure how much grind I have faith in the team removing. Best case scenario, I can see a quest somewhere Rank 75~99 that lets you use the job on other select weapons... which would be kind of a disappointment (but still a liiittle more dynamic).

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Originally Posted by Kinesh

I don't know exactly how is going to be the Job system. I suppose the Job will be a sort of role of the class in the party (Yoshi called it Specialization) .
ATM they're going to introduce only a job per class, however class Archer ==means==> Uses Bow Job => is how to use the bow
Archer may be Ranger in the future playng a high range DD, bard will a support/buffer/debuff etc.
So don't worry, bard will be the first of a list of specializations for Bowsman class

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I'll keep playing the game with this hope since they just killed my fav class in rpg... there's something I don't get tho...
GLD->PLD
PUG->MNK
MRD->WAR
LNC->DRG
so far so good everything seems so natural I don't even know if people need to ask about these classes
CNJ->WHM
THM->BLM
ok someone argued here and I can't blame them but hey if you wanted to be BLM but got levels CNJ cheer! You can still be a BLM ;)
ARC->RNGhmmm... I mean->BRD
wait what? Why everyone gets their fav job role but I can have ranged dps job? :o

So I think here's the real question bugging every ranged dps fan... why?

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Originally Posted by Lionheart

I'll keep playing the game with this hope since they just killed my fav class in rpg... there's something I don't get tho...
GLD->PLD
PUG->MNK
MRD->WAR
LNC->DRG
so far so good everything seems so natural I don't even know if people need to ask about these classes
CNJ->WHM
THM->BLM
ok someone argued here and I can't blame them but hey if you wanted to be BLM but got levels CNJ cheer! You can still be a BLM ;)
ARC->RNGhmmm... I mean->BRD
wait what? Why everyone gets their fav job role but I can have ranged dps job? :o

So I think here's the real question bugging every ranged dps fan... why?

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Except brd can range DD and buff the pt <.<

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Originally Posted by Firon

Except brd can range DD and buff the pt <.<

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nice joke :)

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Originally Posted by Mardel

After reading through many posts, I have only seen a handful of logical ones. The rest of them are usually angry archers.

As someone said around pages 5-8, Ranged Melee DPS has been flawed in just about all modern MMOs.

The trend is this:
1. NEW MMO made.
2. Many people pick the bow using class
3. The bow class is op because of kiting, ranged skills, high dps, and LOW RISK.
4. DEVS nerf the ranged class because they realized the lack of risk is not proportionate to the dps
5. people cry
6. people cry some more
7. they buff them a little
8. the class is still lack luster but people have accepted it
9. overall nothing was really done

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So if every MMO screws up this ranged DPS trope, where can we find a game where ranged DPS IS balanced? Does it even exist? Or are you saying it's impossible to balance and ranged DPS classes will always be an afterthought that all people except the most stubborn of players will stop using?

I know obviously you're speaking from experience from the tone of your post, but at the same time I just find it puzzling that no MMO has gotten it right - it seems like a complete waste of time and effort for MMOs to even make a ranged class if that is the case.

depending on the strength of buffs, bard could still be high DD.
They will probably rollback or alter some of the changes so as to put more of a spike damage focus on archer, they will however be not the most damage overall, but now once you add bards attack and acurracy buff, they will probably be on par with most other jobs, HOWEVER they will not be the most dmg in the party because they are giving thier buff to everyone, Which in reality, if it plays that way makes them the most useful DD in the game. because thier raw numbers are pretty close to everyone else, but they boost everyone else in the party.

On a side note they really didnt make bard very complex, looks like it just gets buff all skills, and you barely have to think about/manage the bard aspect.

brd refresh and tp whore? sounds fun though but i think i will stick with con as my main it has the dispel and i like that more. though classes are diff from ffxi i like very busy classes with the least amount of time inbetween each move. /fun.

http://cheezburger.com/lionheart248/...iew/5457398528

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Originally Posted by Lionheart

http://cheezburger.com/lionheart248/...iew/5457398528

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While I find this comic absolutely hysterical in a satirical sense, I can't help but reiterate (just in case this still isn't hitting home with someone):

Ranger is at least 500% more focused on mastering the landscape and animals within its borders than it is on what weapon it uses while doing it.

Range (Verb): Roam, master, and protect landscape.
Range (Adjective) Long-distance

In the case of fantasy classes, "range" is a verb, not an adjective.
Thus, a Ranger performs the verb, it is not defined by the adjective.

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Originally Posted by Choyi

Musketeer class is planned, surely RNG could become an adv job of that in the future.

And in general RPG settings BRD can be a great DD with differnating levels of support abilites/spells, just cause it was a "weak" support only type class in XI doesn't make that true for its XIV version.

How I envision a typical RPG Bard; its a class that can enter in meele with daggers, swords or maces, shoot from distance with a gun or crossbow, help boost party morale, giving buffs with songs of valor and bravery as the same time enfeebling the monster with entrancing meloies.

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Sounds to me like you are discribing Corair instead of Bard.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

While I find this comic absolutely hysterical in a satirical sense, I can't help but reiterate (just in case this still isn't hitting home with someone):

Ranger is at least 500% more focused on mastering the landscape and animals within its borders than it is on what weapon it uses while doing it.

Range (Verb): Roam, master, and protect landscape.
Range (Adjective) Long-distance

In the case of fantasy classes, "range" is a verb, not an adjective.
Thus, a Ranger performs the verb, it is not defined by the adjective.

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Yeah, I agree, it's just a matter of names really... call it hunter or sniper idc. We just call it ranger because it was the name for ranged dps job in ffxi. ;)

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Originally Posted by Choyi

Musketeer class is planned, surely RNG could become an adv job of that in the future.

And in general RPG settings BRD can be a great DD with differnating levels of support abilites/spells, just cause it was a "weak" support only type class in XI doesn't make that true for its XIV version.

How I envision a typical RPG Bard; its a class that can enter in meele with daggers, swords or maces, shoot from distance with a gun or crossbow, help boost party morale, giving buffs with songs of valor and bravery as the same time enfeebling the monster with entrancing meloies.

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That vision of bard sure is intriguing... maybe he can do a too many things but I like it. Problem is there are people who wanted a pure ranged dps job and now they won't have that choice.

They could wait a little more and make a whole support class from zero maybe for patch 1.23 or something. Like BRD -> DNC (just to say 2 class/jobs that would fit in dd/support role)