Would you like an in-game parser?

I would like a way to keep track of my DPS, and find ways to improve upon it. Don't really care if other people can see it or not.

The relults of the votes till now:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...arserVote1.PNG

Personal yes .. otherwise no too imature people around

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

Personal yes .. otherwise no too imature people around

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There are also immauture people who refuses to get better even without or with parsers. Those who tell me to fuck off because I tell them to read the guide for the fight or those who waste peoples time by being a dead weight for hours in a fight, simply because they refuse to learn and say: It's my sub, my game etc attitude.

Add my vote to personal there. It would be useful for self improvement for pretty much anyone (mostly ps players) and if people want to know how they're doing they just need to ask someone else and compare. Even so.. I'd also be thankful if they add overall group dps (useful to have an idea of how much we're missing to clear the mechanism(and how much we're contributing).

Ah, I always know I'm on the right forum and sub-forum when I see a debate about a DPS meter.

Yes, I would like one. Don't care if people can see what I do (I am used to being tracked for DPS, even as a tank when I was a career tank raider), but I am of the mindset that we should be able to just as easily call out dead-weight DPS as easily as we currently call out tanks and healers for their mistakes. Transparency for all, as opposed to transparency for some and a veiled barrier for others.

sounds more like a witch hunt , then a simple request for a dps meter :P

no, indon't need a tool to further some e-peen enhancement and elitism.

They should build an interface for raid only. and honestly this is the only place where a Meter of some sort will matter anyway. Dungeon dps fluctuates too much due to the inevitable absence of certain buff/debuff types to use as self improvement, and the unequal footing of each classes' current AoE capability for trash(dungeons are 90% trash...). Raid environment is the only type of content currently that require accountability on part of the DPS, as this is the only type of content that you can actually fail at succeeding due to the lack of DPS.

I don't want this to encourage the wrong crowd, like tank and healers being measured against each other for something that isn't their core job. I can write a very long paragraph about how badly the DPS expectation is for tanks and healers are around now, and I think this is largely due to the lack of accountability for DPS.

You know a tank fucked up when a boss isn't positioned correctly, or if he didn't use a cooldown at a time when he should. You know a healer fucked because, well dead people when they shouldn't be dead. You know your DPS isn't pulling their weight... well not really ever, until you hit enrage, and at that point it's still very unclear where the area of opportunities are. Often when this happen, we put more weight on tanks and healers, oh can you dps during this part, oh can you sword oath for non tank busters, oh can you str accessory (which is no longer an issue).

Yoshida said this many times, the savage encounters are balanced around 0 healer dps. I personally don't think it's rocket science when a group get stuck on a piece of content due to the lack of damage, the damage dealers should step up their game. But without proper tools to help with this, nobody would know how, or even know they're not pulling their weight. The new dummies is a step in the right direction, but is no where near a good measurement of how well someone would do in the actual Raid environment. Example of this: when a BLM enters SSS to probably have the best time of his/her life.... (lol).

I think this game could be and should be enjoyed in many different ways. If you're a Bard, you don't believe in WM and you come into my Expert Roulette and run the entire thing without it, it's okay as long as this is what you choose to do, it really isn't much different than the tank who never use and cooldowns, or the whm who never uses regen. Nothing wrong with being casual, it's a game not a job. But when running content that require appropriate level of class potential awareness and optimization, the player should consider what they have signed up for, and the game should provide us the tools to help us do it.

There's no reasonable reason not to have a parser built into the game (technically, it already is built into the game, but players don't get to see that one). Parsers aren't difficult to obtain, and everyone who needs one or wants one already has one. But this game isn't like WoW where a parser had add-on support, and sharing the information with a group was as easy as linking it into chat; even then, it was preferred that everyone in the raid had a parser running.

Putting up with ACT and the inconveniences it comes with is a silly thing for players to have to do in an MMO that just had an xpac in 2015. The most you'll hear from opposition is a boogeyman argument of "the parse troll", which seems to suggest that handing a player a parser will suddenly transform them into an obnoxious elitist who kicks players with impunity because their number aren't within 1% of perfection. It's ludicrous.

The proportion of these votes have stayed very consistent. O.O

Random stat breakdown time (take with a grain of salt as this a small and limited sample size):

Total Votes as of May 9th, 2016 - 0847 EST (thread approximately going for 3 days)
Total Vote - 209 Votes
No Parser - 34 Votes (16.27%)
Yes, Group Parser - 107 Votes (51.20%)
Yes, Personal Parser - 68 Votes (32.54%)

No VS Yes, Group Parser

Total Vote - 141 Votes
No Parser - 34 Votes (24.11%)
Yes, Group Parser - 107 Votes (75.89%)

No VS Yes, Personal Parser

Total Vote - 102 Votes
No Parser - 34 Votes (33.33%)
Yes, Personal Parser - 68 Votes (66.67%)

Total Votes arbitrarily assuming 50% of the Group Parser population voted both

Total Vote - 155 Votes
No Parser - 34 Votes (21.94%)
Yes, Group Parser - 53 Votes (34.19%)
Yes, Personal Parser - 14 Votes (9.03%)
Yes, Don't Care About Either (Assumption) - 54 Votes (34.84%)

Total Votes arbitrarily assuming 50% of the Personal Parser population voted both

Total Vote - 175 Votes
No Parser - 34 Votes (19.43%)
Yes, Group Parser - 73 Votes (41.71%)
Yes, Personal Parser - 34 Votes (19.43%)
Yes, Don't Care About Either (Assumption) - 34 Votes (19.43%)

I continue to be surprised that the "No" vote continues to remain as low as it is despite how many people are seemingly opposed to parsers, though that's probably confirmation bias on my own part too.

I'm really kicking myself in the face for the wording. But the forum mods, can see the true data, if they used a difference calculator between the forum names, if they feel intrigued by the poll.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Random stat breakdown time (take with a grain of salt as this a small and limited sample size):

[U][B]TI continue to be surprised that the "No" vote continues to remain as low as it is despite how many people are seemingly opposed to parsers, though that's probably confirmation bias on my own part too.

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The vote is split about 50/50 between those who want a group parser and those who don't. I don't think many opposed to group parsers are not in favor of a personal one for their use only. It really only goes to show that group parsers aren't wanted by half the population here in this thread at least.

NO, damage meters just breed elitism and makes some players focus on numbers.

Everything that is important information wise is available in the user interface at the moment. Raids should be more about teamwork and accomplishing a goal together than who's the biggest DPSER or who's the best player....

It should be noted that the forums are a pretty poor random sampling of FF14 players. I would expect the forum population to have a much higher proportion of hardcore/elite players vs casual players compared to the actual population distribution in game(this is based of no known statistics, just my experience with MMORPGs). I would assume the elite players to be more inclined towards allowing an official parser which likely has a lot to do with the numbers we see here.

It should also be noted that many of the hardcore/elite players want a parser not because they want to know their DPS (lets be honest, they are likely already using 3rd party software) but because they want to hold other people accountable for a lack of DPS. Nothing really wrong with that except this is likely going to be directed at dps they meet in PuGs (theoretically they don't have to worry about their FC or friends reporting them for using 3rd party software). I have no issue with people getting reprimanded for sleep walking through a zone. But I don't like the idea of some inexperienced casual trying to finish his daily leveling roulette getting abused (or just randomly kicked) because he can't keep up with some ilvl synced hardcore in 230 gear.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

The vote is split about 50/50 between those who want a group parser and those who don't. I don't think many opposed to group parsers are not in favor of a personal one for their use only. It really only goes to show that group parsers aren't wanted by half the population here in this thread at least.

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Alternatively, one can interpret the data to say that very few people are actually opposed to a parser, but they're opposed to what type of parser (group vs personal). Hence, my assumed breakdown in my post about those who don't care which type it is as long as they get some form of measuring tool to use.

With that being said, it's pretty clear that the forum population thus far have indeed agreed that they do want a parser in some capacity.

You can watch what abilities people are using. You can see right next to their character portrait in the party frame if they have up key buffs like heavy thrust, straight shot, maim, etc.

If someone is going through a leveling roulette by simply only using auto-attack you should be able to tell without a damage meter




For example I tanked an Amdapor recently and watched the dragoon only use 3 skills the whole dungeon, true, vorpal, full thrust.. the 1, 2 ,3 basic combo. Even though I asked him/her to use full thrust for the buff it never happened. I just assumed the dragoon wasn't paying attention to chat or watching tv or something also.

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Originally Posted by Bloodb

You can watch what abilities people are using. You can see right next to their character portrait in the party frame if they have up key buffs like heavy thrust, straight shot, maim, etc.

If someone is going through a leveling roulette by simply only using auto-attack you should be able to tell without a damage meter

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If you meet a player and trying to tell him he has to get better, lets say in a good mannered way and he tells you to fuck off, is that okay?

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Alternatively, one can interpret the data to say that very few people are actually opposed to a parser some capacity.

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No the issue isn't parsers, it's group parsers. Spin it the way you like but the PRO GROUP PARSER crowd didn't win this one. I think it's been pretty clear in threads on this forum that those by far and large opposed to parsers don't want group ones and this poll at least CLEARLY SHOWS THAT.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

No the issue isn't parsers, it's group parsers. Spin it the way you like but the PRO GROUP PARSER crowd didn't win this one. I think it's been pretty clear in threads on this forum that those by far and large opposed to parsers don't want group ones and this poll at least CLEARLY SHOWS THAT.

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Yes, there are semantics involved but the point you're replying to is the fact that I'm surprised that despite the amount of negativity there is towards parsers, there isn't that much opposition to actually including one (of any make *key context here*) which was the point of my comment when I made that post.

There is a much smaller gap between those who want a personal parser versus a group parser which pointed out rightfully, but I wasn't aiming towards that discussion with my comment.

Also, I don't know about you, but but group parser is still ahead of the combine "No" and "Yes, Personal Parser" vote by 1.2%. It's a slim margin but in a Democracy that's still getting the confidence of the people who you are polling via majority.

EDIT - You also don't know how many people in the voting are actually voting for both because they don't care about which tool it is as long as they get the tool. This would lower the amount of people who are "opposed" to having a group parser by an unspecified amount since they just want to use a tool in general (in contrast, it would also lower the amount of support of those who only want a group parser as well)

I can't use a parser since im on ps4 but I know a few that give me numbers. It really improved my dps knowing what numbers I was pulling out. I think a personal parser is a good compromise at least.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Also, I don't know about you, but but group parser is still ahead of the combine "No" and "Yes, Personal Parser" vote by 1.2%. It's a slim margin but in a Democracy that's still getting the confidence of the people who you are polling via majority.

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This isn't an election. It was a poll trying to guage the sentiments of the forum community relative to parsers. If you think that SE is going to implement a group parser with approximately half the community opposed to them, dream on.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

This isn't an election. It was a poll trying to guage the sentiments of the forum community relative to parsers. If you think that SE is going to implement a group parser with approximately half the community opposed to them, dream on.

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Your opinion doesn't count as half the community.

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Originally Posted by RickXRolled

Your opinion doesn't count as half the community.

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We're talking about the poll Rick. I have an opinion yes just like you do. That's what makes the world go around, doesn't it. The poll clearly shows that group parsers aren't wanted here on the forum by approximately half the people who responded in this thread. That's NOT my opinion. Sorry if that doesn't tickle your fancy.

Group-Wide parser plskthx.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

This isn't an election. It was a poll trying to guage the sentiments of the forum community relative to parsers. If you think that SE is going to implement a group parser with approximately half the community opposed to them, dream on.

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I think you're missing my point entirely so, let me try to steer this in a different avenue. This is how I'm interpreting our discussion ATM.

My initial comment was the community would like to see any parser implemented and they don't care which type of parser it is (group or personal).
Your comment was the community doesn't want a group parser.

Upon re-reading the thread / data a little your comment isn't wrong. In the same token, my comment isn't wrong either. We're just having this discussion because we're pretty much misinterpreting the point the other person is trying to make.

To make it clear, while I did vote only for a Group Parser, I am not opposed to a personal parser being implemented either because players should have the tools to gauge their performance.

In the exact same token, there are definitely people who have voted for a personal parser that are not opposed to a group parser because they don't care if their numbers are seen or not seen as long as they have the tool readily available.
^ This is important because without knowing this context, we don't know how many people are actually opposed to a group parser or not. Just because someone votes for "Yes, Personal Parser" doesn't meant they oppose "Yes, Group Parser" and viceversa.

I feel your comment is skewed in bias because you're considering the data without all the context associated with it and almost feels like another option needs to be added just to see how much of the pro parser crowd are either

1. Please, only Personal Parser due to abuse reasons
2. Please, just give me a tool to use so I can gauge my performance

Shame we can't really add that option now but I hope you understand my point.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

To make it clear, while I did vote only for a Group Parser, I am not opposed to a personal parser being implemented either because players should have the tools to gauge their performance.

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Let me make my position clear too, I would not be opposed to a personal parser either.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Let me make my position clear too, I would not be opposed to a personal parser either.

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I can already determine this based on the points you've made in your previous comments.

Therefore you are in agreement with my initial comment - the community would like to see a parser implemented. However, the type of parser is still up to debate as per our discussion chain thus far.

Lol, personal parsers...progression still gonna be judging you with their third party parsers and kicking people who are completely clueless. SE is not going to add a parser to the game that can come into the hands of a PC player within minutes of a download. Sure, this alienates the console players but has anyone asked if SE just hasn't considered the console players as casual? I have yet to see SE post a pic of one of their live primal events with a factory line of PS4's for people the play on lol. Assumptions for the whole console casual thing but c'mon now lol #pcmasterrace!

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I can already determine this based on the points you've made in your previous comments.

Therefore you are in agreement with my initial comment - the community would like to see a parser implemented. However, the type of parser is still up to debate as per our discussion chain thus far.

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Here is a concern with a private parser, it needs to be in a way that players cannot force it into being a public parser, wouldn't it? its kinda why SSS ended up the ways it is(as questionable as it is for prepping someone)

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Here is a concern with a private parser, it needs to be in a way that players cannot force it into being a public parser, wouldn't it?

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How would you prevent that? It's the same thing as with the opt-out option someone else mentioned earlier >_>

If you don't want to post your numbers, you'll be assumed a bad player and treated respectively, regardless of what your actual numbers are, just as if you'd hide your DPS if given the option. There's no real difference here.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

How would you prevent that? It's the same thing as with the opt-out option someone else mentioned earlier >_>

If you don't want to post your numbers, you'll be assumed a bad player and treated respectively, regardless of what your actual numbers are, just as if you'd hide your DPS if given the option. There's no real difference here.

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Which is kinda why im opposed to any parser...but if one had to be brought in, I would see my comment as a requirement, otherwise whatever the parser is, private or public, becomes irrelevant and it will be eventually be used as a social bludgeon.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

How would you prevent that? It's the same thing as with the opt-out option someone else mentioned earlier >_>

If you don't want to post your numbers, you'll be assumed a bad player and treated respectively, regardless of what your actual numbers are, just as if you'd hide your DPS if given the option. There's no real difference here.

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She says as somewhere... a PC player is in a dungeon parsing.. and doesn't kick anyone nor bring any attention to their dps.


Orrrrr


https://i.imgflip.com/13ugxl.jpg

Rude, bad, players might ask for your dps, but most players will just say their dps, when they feel they did well and not expect you to say yours.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Rude, bad, players might ask for your dps, but most players will just say their dps, when they feel they did well and not expect you to say yours.

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I don't think so - I wager it'd be a common occurrence in runs that don't go particularly swift or smooth. And I wouldn't stereotype those players as rude or bad either - some genuinely want to help, others just want to kick whoever is making this run go 30 instead of 20 minutes. Some people are bad and seek a scapegoat, others are so used to a higher level of play that they take it for granted. Some people might even just want to stroke their E-Peen. Motivations differ.

I just fully expect people who do not want to disclose their DPS if prompted to be treated as if they were bad players, because people like to go with the logic:"There is no reason to hide something if you aren't doing something bad.".

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Originally Posted by Bloodb

NO, damage meters just breed elitism and makes some players focus on numbers.

Everything that is important information wise is available in the user interface at the moment. Raids should be more about teamwork and accomplishing a goal together than who's the biggest DPSER or who's the best player....

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In a game with dps checks and an enrage. numbers are important and a focus. Face it man everyone doesnt win a trophy

this game needs some sort of feedback so that people who are playing bad know they have room for improvement

i don't see any problem with having a personal parser that shows your own performance

and maybe even make a leaderboard so people can compete for top dps ^^

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Originally Posted by itti18

this game needs some sort of feedback so that people who are playing bad know they have room for improvement

i don't see any problem with having a personal parser that shows your own performance

and maybe even make a leaderboard so people can compete for top dps ^^

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As far as leaderboards go at least we have fflogs

Maybe as a score system.
Doing dmg give you plus points (healing give more points, so healers don't are forced to do dmg)
Get hit give you minus points

If you are a tank, you get points if you get hit and minus points if someone else get hit

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Originally Posted by itti18

this game needs some sort of feedback so that people who are playing bad know they have room for improvement

i don't see any problem with having a personal parser that shows your own performance

and maybe even make a leaderboard so people can compete for top dps ^^

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If people do not care for the game's feedback or switch it off? I mean eventually its gonna go to the background, or not be scaled to the player standards that are unrelated to the intended ilvl of the encounter.