3.2 Patch Notes

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Originally Posted by Alahra

But honestly, a number of players probably wouldn't even know what Senpai meant—anime has a pretty niche audience these days in the States.

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If by "niche audience" you mean "more popular than ever before" then yeah I'll agree with you.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Reasonable or not, I just want Holy to be back to its original strength before the last two nerfs ._.

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I doubt that ever happens. They want to get away from tanks and healers having so much DPS focus due to the affect it's had over the raid scene. Long term, I think that's a good thing since a lot of people who play those roles aren't as interested in DPSing.

Senpai and Mentor may not have noticed me, but Gigantic Weeaboo sure did! "Mentor" is fine.

You hear me? THIS is why we can't have nice things!

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

If by "niche audience" you mean "more popular than ever before" then yeah I'll agree with you.

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Something can still be popular and have a niche audience, though.

Anime had a much bigger presence in mainstream spaces (like retail stores and whatnot) say fifteen years ago, and the shelf space dedicated to it in places like that has largely shrunk since then. It's certainly very popular via streaming now, but you don't see nationwide theatrical releases anymore (such as it was for Princess Mononoke, for example). There have been some limited releases (like with Evangelion 3.33 a couple years ago), but nothing that hit that level of mainstream exposure of which I'm aware.

That's all I meant.

This Luminiferous Aether and Ewer buffs are quite overpowered when you look at them together. Judging by the fact that WHM has more MP intensive spells and that Shroud of Saints has a 15 seconds duration, a good AST will be able to achieve virtually infinite MP with the use of LA + Ewer + Lightspeed. Also, Ewer will probably replenish more MP now, especially when compared to the 10% Assize.

So, is WHM being left behind, again?

On another note..I saw they are adding another TT card amount achievement...CAN WE PLEASE GET AN UNCAPPED DECK NOW! Like really...this should of already been a thing.

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Originally Posted by UnstablePersonality

Because Esoterics drop as much as law did ..so there isn't a reason to change it.

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You are incorrect, those items already have that value with law, and law has a higher value than esoteric. I think when we change our law it will have a 1/3 value of esoteric?

All the items that could be get using law are now gonna be reduces at a 1/3 of what it was originally. So logicaly this unidentified items should cost less than now, but they didnt.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

You are incorrect, those items already have that value with law, and law has a higher value than esoteric. I think when we change our law it will have a 1/3 value of esoteric?

All the items that could be get using law are now gonna be reduces at a 1/3 of what it was originally. So logicaly this unidentified items should cost less than now, but they didnt.

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In the patch notes it shows what the rate of eso will be and it's pretty close, if not more than what it previously was with law.

http://prntscr.com/a5ji68

Screenshot for you as well, they are exactly what the law amount is now so all that is really changing is the tome used.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

You are incorrect, those items already have that value with law, and law has a higher value than esoteric. I think when we change our law it will have a 1/3 value of esoteric?

All the items that could be get using law are now gonna be reduces at a 1/3 of what it was originally. So logicaly this unidentified items should cost less than now, but they didnt.

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The roulette rewards seem to be 1:1 conversion, they will give the same amount of esoterics as they give law now after the patch. The 3.0 hunts even got buffed with S ranks going for 80 eso and A ranks giving twice as many eso than law now. Only thing we don't see now is if the non-bonus dungeon/raid/trial rewards are 1:1 conversion but going by what we know so far they probably will be.

Still don't understand how much more convoluted BRD needs to become, since reworking Wardens Paeon to be a dps version of esuna or leeches is totally what this class needs. I've only used Wardens Paeon for Odin, any other instance the healers already had debuffs cleansed making this skill a waste. But it's whatever I'm sure I'll get used to being a status cleanser tp mp regenerating debuffing caster.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

Still don't understand how much more convoluted BRD needs to become, since reworking Wardens Paeon to be a dps version of esuna or leeches is totally what this class needs. I've only used Wardens Paeon for Odin, any other instance the healers already had debuffs cleansed making this skill a waste. But it's whatever I'm sure I'll get used to being a status cleanser tp mp regenerating debuffing caster.

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I like that it's not utterly a waste of time anymore (besides at the beginning).
Also half the time healers don't bother to cleanse things. Good healers, yes, but healers in general? Eh-
I'll just do it myself thanks.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

Still don't understand how much more convoluted BRD needs to become, since reworking Wardens Paeon to be a dps version of esuna or leeches is totally what this class needs. I've only used Wardens Paeon for Odin, any other instance the healers already had debuffs cleansed making this skill a waste. But it's whatever I'm sure I'll get used to being a status cleanser tp mp regenerating debuffing caster.

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I mean being fair, Bard's always been a supportive role in not just FF games from the past, but in almost any rpg.

I just wish they would have started us with some of our supportive skills, rather than threw them all at us during 3.0 after we had 2 years or more to get used to how it played as it was before, then it's suddenly "lol have fun".

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Originally Posted by Alahra

Something can still be popular and have a niche audience, though.

Anime had a much bigger presence in mainstream spaces (like retail stores and whatnot) say fifteen years ago, and the shelf space dedicated to it in places like that has largely shrunk since then. It's certainly very popular via streaming now, but you don't see nationwide theatrical releases anymore (such as it was for Princess Mononoke, for example). There have been some limited releases (like with Evangelion 3.33 a couple years ago), but nothing that hit that level of mainstream exposure of which I'm aware.

That's all I meant.

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madoka movies.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

I mean being fair, Bard's always been a supportive role in not just FF games from the past, but in almost any rpg.

I just wish they would have started us with some of our supportive skills, rather than threw them all at us during 3.0 after we had 2 years or more to get used to how it played as it was before, then it's suddenly "lol have fun".

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But....BRD has had support abilities since 1.0....are you one of those Bards that never knew how to play magic song?

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Originally Posted by Pence

But....BRD has had support abilities since 1.0....are you one of those Bards that never knew how to play magic song?

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I said "some", not "all".

Realistically though, songs were our only real support skills all through the game up to 3.0. It was when 3.0 dropped that we started getting other stuff (like Warden's, though frankly the way it worked before made it all but useless in most situations, happy they changed it to act more like an Esuna). The added damage given by WP was honestly needed a while back solely for the fact most Bards refused to play their songs because of the dps hit. And frankly even now I see non-bards telling bards not to play songs because of the dps hit, even if we're in WP and pop our cooldowns to make up for it. Bard was never meant to be a high damage class and idk why people don't realize that.

It's baffling how many people don't want Bards to play their class properly.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

even if we're in WP and pop our cooldowns to make up for it. Bard was never meant to be a high damage class and idk why people don't realize that.

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Because you can deal high damage with it..?

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Originally Posted by UnstablePersonality

In the patch notes it shows what the rate of eso will be and it's pretty close, if not more than what it previously was with law.

http://prntscr.com/a5ji68

Screenshot for you as well, they are exactly what the law amount is now so all that is really changing is the tome used.

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Sorry but you seem confuse here. I'm talking about the prices of the special items you can buy at Rowena's with tomestones

Why are you talking about roulettes? What it has to do with this anyway?

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Originally Posted by jssanderson747

Because you can deal high damage with it..?

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We deal better damage now with WP + cooldowns, but I'm just saying that if a healer needs MP super badly, I'm prioritizing Mage's Ballad over dps output because if the healer goes down too much on MP, that's a great scenario for a wipe.

What boggles me is when the healer themselves, with only 500 mp left, are telling me to turn off Ballad because it's cutting my dps. Friend, I know that - I don't care, I'd rather my dps go to crap for a few seconds than have the tank die because you can't even get off a heal due to no MP.

Like I'm sorry, but my job is a hybrid support. I'm gonna support when it's needed, and I've played the class for 2 years so I feel like I can fairly well judge when I need to drop into a song and deal with a little bit of dps cut.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

The added damage given by WP was honestly needed a while back solely for the fact most Bards refused to play their songs because of the dps hit. And frankly even now I see non-bards telling bards not to play songs because of the dps hit, even if we're in WP and pop our cooldowns to make up for it. Bard was never meant to be a high damage class and idk why people don't realize that.

It's baffling how many people don't want Bards to play their class properly.

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What? Where are you getting BRD isn't a high damage class? BRD can dish out a ton of damage if it is played right, not damage like MNK or DRG but it can push out a ton of damage not to mentions Foe's contribution throughout the party, makes up for it not being as strong as pure melee dps or magic.

Ballad and Paeon infring 15% damage reduction which is why people say don't play them because even with Wanderer's you're still losing half of the amount you gain. At high level DPS checks that loss of 15% isn't helping out the party unless players are TP and MP starved. Those songs are like a double edged sword it's good and bad.

People don't know how to play BRD right at times because of SE and their lack of direction with the class. You can't fault anyone for not really knowing BRD cause SE keeps proving they don't either. This isn't 1.0 and the class didn't start with support skills, you gain those and the class becomes a hybrid that was very interesting to learn. Then we became casters overnight and SE basically said 'have fun, we don't know how to balance this class' and threw the class into a spiral. Ya we have more damage and that was the direction it seemed they were going with us which was fine. But then they decide Wardens Paeon isn't used enough cause leeches and esuna are loads better and now they want us to deal with that mechanic as well.

TL;DR
BRD is probably one of the toughest and most convoluted classes to play because of SE and their lack of direction to go with the class.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

What? Where are you getting BRD isn't a high damage class?

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Compare it to black mage or dragoon - that's where. We're a lot better now thanks to WP, but I've played my DRG for bordering on 3 years now and have paired with my BLM friend a lot, and regardless of how well I perform on my bard, my damage is still a lot lower. >_>

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Originally Posted by Madjames

So is it confirmed that there is no changes to the relic parts such as Crystal grinding or the last part with the HQ items?

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Only change is about getting a replica if missed the last zodiac quest after getting the zeta.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Only change is about getting a replica if missed the last zodiac quest after getting the zeta.

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Which I'm quite glad for. I still feel a small tinge of pain when I remember hearing unanimously "no additional requirements as long as you'd already gotten a Zeta" from ls-mates and spending my Zeta straight away for crystals. I blame myself, of course, but that doesn't help completely.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

What? Where are you getting BRD isn't a high damage class? BRD can dish out a ton of damage if it is played right, not damage like MNK or DRG but it can push out a ton of damage not to mentions Foe's contribution throughout the party, makes up for it not being as strong as pure melee dps or magic.

Ballad and Paeon infring 15% damage reduction which is why people say don't play them because even with Wanderer's you're still losing half of the amount you gain. At high level DPS checks that loss of 15% isn't helping out the party unless players are TP and MP starved. Those songs are like a double edged sword it's good and bad.

People don't know how to play BRD right at times because of SE and their lack of direction with the class. You can't fault anyone for not really knowing BRD cause SE keeps proving they don't either. This isn't 1.0 and the class didn't start with support skills, you gain those and the class becomes a hybrid that was very interesting to learn. Then we became casters overnight and SE basically said 'have fun, we don't know how to balance this class' and threw the class into a spiral. Ya we have more damage and that was the direction it seemed they were going with us which was fine. But then they decide Wardens Paeon isn't used enough cause leeches and esuna are loads better and now they want us to deal with that mechanic as well.

TL;DR
BRD is probably one of the toughest and most convoluted classes to play because of SE and their lack of direction to go with the class.

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Honestly, I feel like the biggest limiters to Bard are simply:

• (1) it depends on at least one good caster and dpsing under-acc-cap healers to meet the raid contribution a MCH will put out with an all melee party,
• (2) some jobs will still drain TP faster than others even with these changes
  (it's almost like the Monk changes were to keep its dps lead even while having to mid-combat Meditate for Purification TP, because while the slightly slower TP-draining NIN, MCH, and BRD all got TP improvements, Monk got a dps increase instead),
• (3) natural TP regen not being synced to skill speed
  (which means the party drains means there's an even further disparity between classes for which skill speed is decent (MNK), cap-required (DRG), or unavoidable (gear choices), and those that can avoid it),
• and (4) the fact that no support generally gets its own (MP) support
  (as per old double-bard setups with near-permanent Foe).

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Which I'm quite glad for. I still feel a small tinge of pain when I remember hearing unanimously "no additional requirements as long as you'd already gotten a Zeta" from ls-mates and spending my Zeta straight away for crystals. I blame myself, of course, but that doesn't help completely.

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I'm not sure why someone would stop in the middle of a quest chain though. Sure you got the relic but you still have a quest to go...

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

What boggles me is when the healer themselves, with only 500 mp left, are telling me to turn off Ballad because it's cutting my dps. Friend, I know that - I don't care, I'd rather my dps go to crap for a few seconds than have the tank die because you can't even get off a heal due to no MP.

Like I'm sorry, but my job is a hybrid support. I'm gonna support when it's needed, and I've played the class for 2 years so I feel like I can fairly well judge when I need to drop into a song and deal with a little bit of dps cut.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

It's baffling how many people don't want Bards to play their class properly.

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....u arent a hybrid , because HYBRIDS dont exist in FFXIV , u are labeled as DPS , and if u dont dps to the max when u should be dpsing (burning adds , burst phases) , u arent helping your party , and if a healer is at 500 mp and tells u to stop is because the CD to regain MP (Shroud of Saints , atherflow ...) is almost ready.

in the whole 3.0 i casted ballad, almost never usually when learning a encounter and healers go all out to keep pushing phases, but for normal/farm content ....uhmm....in A4s , and A1s when bosses jump (not for healers here SMN and DRK mostly )...a3s sometimes if the whm overhealed but 90% of the time is has been Foe , Paeon rarely , but i raid with nin.

im not topping the meters , because the job is unable to do so by design , but im not dragging my party down singing a song that isnt needed in the 1 place...or ignoring that im dps , and that as brd we have CDs for spike dmg that u should use when needed (chained toguether and u reach really good dmg) , and of course songs. But 3.0 has been a dps race/check.

is like saying that nin arent DPS because goad , trick attack , shadewalker , smoke screen....yeah all the jobs have some kind of utility , that doesnt make this jobs "hybrids".

SE doesnt help at all adding dispel to BRD...1 step forward and 2 steps back with this job. Mch getting a +10% physical "song" now...is the cherry on top.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

Sorry but you seem confuse here. I'm talking about the prices of the special items you can buy at Rowena's with tomestones

Why are you talking about roulettes? What it has to do with this anyway?

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Because I was originally talking about how much esoterics the roulette themselves will give before you posted your reply to what I said too you on top of what the conversion will give you (roulettes giving the same amount of eso as they did law) hence why they didn't lower it.

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Originally Posted by Alahra

Something can still be popular and have a niche audience, though.

Anime had a much bigger presence in mainstream spaces (like retail stores and whatnot) say fifteen years ago, and the shelf space dedicated to it in places like that has largely shrunk since then. It's certainly very popular via streaming now, but you don't see nationwide theatrical releases anymore (such as it was for Princess Mononoke, for example). There have been some limited releases (like with Evangelion 3.33 a couple years ago), but nothing that hit that level of mainstream exposure of which I'm aware.

That's all I meant.

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Just because the amount of Dragonball and Pokemon DvDs/BlueRays shrank, doesn't mean there is less of a presence. A majority of TV is handled via streaming these days and yes, anime takes a big part in that. Also, something being very popular and being a niche kind of does not go together.

Also, anime movies is more than Princess Mononoke and Studio Ghibli. The anime scene evolved over the year (oh and btw, 15 years ago was when it only really started off).

This is a bit of an OTT topic for this thread but really, do not judge a general popularity by your standards. Maybe you paid more attention to this topic 15 years ago (if you were beyond 5 at the time...and if you weren't I highly doubt you perception). You don't like "Senpai", it's understood. YOu'd be surprised how many people know the word though.

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Originally Posted by Chessala

Also, something being very popular and being a niche kind of does not go together.

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Something that's niche in popularity has a narrow band of popularity—it is popular with a certain subset of the general population such that it is not generally considered mainstream. For example, Dungeons and Dragons is certainly popular (the tabletop RPG industry has undergone something of a renaissance in the past 10 years or so), but its appeal is to a niche audience—whereas something like video games in general have popular, mainstream appeal.

Regarding Mononoke, that example was given only to show that, at one time, anime had enough crossover appeal with the general population that some movies could get national theatrical releases. It's not popular enough with the general population now for something like that to really occur. Theatrical releases these days are usually limited, in select cities and such.

All I'm saying is that its mainstream appeal has gotten smaller over the past couple of decades in the States. That's primarily because the licensing scenes have begun to focus on a smaller range of shows that appeal to a more dedicated fanbase that is, relative to the overall population, less general and more niche in its tastes.

I never actually even said I disliked the term senpai (I think it can be used for great comedic effect sometimes)—just that there's some number of players who wouldn't recognize the word. Even among anime fans (of which this game assuredly has many), it's not even guaranteed that someone watches enough anime (or even the right types of shows, since the "notice me senpai" bit is a genre thing for the most part) with Japanese audio to really be familiar with the word—especially since so much of anime is consumed via streaming on Netflix and Hulu which don't always have subtitle options. Crunchyroll certainly does—but folks watching anime on Crunchyroll are certainly more dedicated fans who would know what the word meant.

As is usual in these cases, the NA localization team took a more general approach—the reference is there for the in crowd who get/approve of the allusion, and folks who don't recognize it aren't really affected because the name of the achievement makes enough sense in context.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

....u arent a hybrid , because HYBRIDS dont exist in FFXIV

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If I'm not meant to be a hybrid support, then they shouldn't have given my class support skills that regen TP, MP, lower MDEF of mobs, and soon we're getting a change to our skill which lets us use a bard Esuna.

Sorry, but if I have those tools, I'm going to use them because they are part of my class and using them is how to properly play it. You can keep being one of those bards who refuse to sing when people are shouting in party or raid for a song, but meanwhile I'm going to be actually contributing with my support skills when needed. Otherwise I shouldn't have had them on my class.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

If I'm not meant to be a hybrid support, then they shouldn't have given my class support skills that regen TP, MP, lower MDEF of mobs, and soon we're getting a change to our skill which lets us use a bard Esuna.

Sorry, but if I have those tools, I'm going to use them because they are part of my class and using them is how to properly play it. You can keep being one of those bards who refuse to sing when people are shouting in party or raid for a song, but meanwhile I'm going to be actually contributing with my support skills when needed. Otherwise I shouldn't have had them on my class.

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You are the goddamn best bard ever and I love you.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

What boggles me is when the healer themselves, with only 500 mp left, are telling me to turn off Ballad because it's cutting my dps. Friend, I know that - I don't care, I'd rather my dps go to crap for a few seconds than have the tank die because you can't even get off a heal due to no MP.

Like I'm sorry, but my job is a hybrid support. I'm gonna support when it's needed, and I've played the class for 2 years so I feel like I can fairly well judge when I need to drop into a song and deal with a little bit of dps cut.

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While it is great to provide support, I feel that we're missing a lot of info here. If a healer is telling you to turn off ballad when they have 500 MP left, it's likely because they don't need the MP. A few things to consider:

1. Each healer has it's own MP refresh (Shroud, LA, Aetherflow)
2. If the mob is almost dead, your 20% damage loss may be enough for the tank to take an extra hit. It's better for the mob to die faster than it is for to healer to heal more

Generally speaking, you should never need to play Ballad during a dungeon. Further (I believe), in most scenarios Army's Paean is also a net reduction in damage output. For your songs, you're generally best to Foe as the tank is pulling, let it run out - regen MP. Repeat. Paean can also be great to use between pulls to top up TP for the tank and melee. In a raid encounter, this changes, but you're best to plan your song usage with your team. For example, I often have our MCH/BRD play MP refresh during jumps. This not only helps with healers, but a SMN could then spam Ruin III prior to the jump for added DPS and not worry about draining MP.

Machinists get it just as bad too with support skills lol Turrent makes up 25% of their damage which they lost because of having to use support skills (idk who thought putting them on turrent was smart)

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Originally Posted by Lego3400

I'm not sure why someone would stop in the middle of a quest chain though. Sure you got the relic but you still have a quest to go...

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Mostly just that I dropped by, got the relic, and no new quest showed up. I then went off to raid with said relic, and hadn't looked back. If you're going to have an achievement or quest check for having received a Zeta weapon, shouldn't it be given *when* you receive the Zeta weapon?

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

While it is great to provide support, I feel that we're missing a lot of info here. If a healer is telling you to turn off ballad when they have 500 MP left, it's likely because they don't need the MP. A few things to consider:

1. Each healer has it's own MP refresh (Shroud, LA, Aetherflow)
2. If the mob is almost dead, your 20% damage loss may be enough for the tank to take an extra hit. It's better for the mob to die faster than it is for to healer to heal more

Generally speaking, you should never need to play Ballad during a dungeon.

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I get what you're saying, but the example I provided was something I had happen at least 5 separate times with a WHM and AST (it was never a SCH, if they were low on MP I'd be worried). I tend to watch the healer as far as what they're doing, because you're right, if their own MP regen skill is about to come off CD, popping on Mage's isn't always needed and thus I got in the habit of watching the healer's skill usage whenever I looked up to their MP (I do this a lot, I guess 2 years of having to watch MP made me do it unconsciously).All the times I had a situation like that, with the healer's MP dangerously low, they never had their regens up because they'd already used them once they got down to half MP pool. Thus why I ticked on Mage's for them, because yeah at that point they had no way of their own to regen and if I didn't, the tank had a high potential of dying because they had almost no MP to heal with.


Even then, I still find it baffling when someone is telling me to turn off a song while in non-hardcore content, even if the song is desperately needed by someone in the group. Like, I'm not telling people to turn off CS even when the tank is nearly dying due to them tunnel-visioning into dpsing, I'd appreciate someone not trying to dictate when I should be using my song. I've played Bard for nearly 2 years. I have my timing down to a habit.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

I get what you're saying, but the example I provided was something I had happen at least 5 separate times with a WHM and AST (it was never a SCH, if they were low on MP I'd be worried). I tend to watch the healer as far as what they're doing, because you're right, if their own MP regen skill is about to come off CD, popping on Mage's isn't always needed and thus I got in the habit of watching the healer's skill usage whenever I looked up to their MP (I do this a lot, I guess 2 years of having to watch MP made me do it unconsciously).All the times I had a situation like that, with the healer's MP dangerously low, they never had their regens up because they'd already used them once they got down to half MP pool. Thus why I ticked on Mage's for them, because yeah at that point they had no way of their own to regen and if I didn't, the tank had a high potential of dying because they had almost no MP to heal with.


Even then, I still find it baffling when someone is telling me to turn off a song while in non-hardcore content, even if the song is desperately needed by someone in the group. Like, I'm not telling people to turn off CS even when the tank is nearly dying due to them tunnel-visioning into dpsing, I'd appreciate someone not trying to dictate when I should be using my song. I've played Bard for nearly 2 years. I have my timing down to a habit.

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I see. I don't wish to tell you how to play, but from my perspective, I cringe when I see Army's Paean and/or Mage's Ballad show up in non-hardcore content. It could be useful for some however, I guess. For me, I know how to manage my own MP and do not require the aid of those songs. As I said, I could be wrong, but I am fairly certain Paean is generally a DPS loss for a team of 4. The biggest exception to this is when I do 14 raises on tentacle boss in Void Ark (true story, and for reference 14 raises = 37k MP and max 13K MP)

I do, sometimes, mention to the bard, "Hey thanks for Ballad, you can turn it off now :)". I'll throw this out if they are playing Ballad and I am 50%+ on MP (often more).

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

If I'm not meant to be a hybrid support, then they shouldn't have given my class support skills that regen TP, MP, lower MDEF of mobs, and soon we're getting a change to our skill which lets us use a bard Esuna.

Sorry, but if I have those tools, I'm going to use them because they are part of my class and using them is how to properly play it. You can keep being one of those bards who refuse to sing when people are shouting in party or raid for a song, but meanwhile I'm going to be actually contributing with my support skills when needed. Otherwise I shouldn't have had them on my class.

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no1 is saying otherwise , but using MP song or TP song when every1 is at max mp/tp ...just because is part your job....makes no sense...

I dont like how u interpret that im a bard that refuse to sing when ppl need my songs, because u are sorely mistaken. U think u are the perfect bard when singing songs EVEN when they arent needed because is part of your class....and thats just WRONG...

the BRD skills outside of FOE (+BV) on pull , and on burst phases , are used to regen resources...so using TP/MP songs when arent needed is detrimental to your MAIN ROLE , DPS, since it lowers your personal dmg.

is not like u will change your mind , u think singing all the time is what make "bard perfect" , i think that using the appropiate songs at the appropiate time is way important and it what makes the job really shine. No1 cares that u sing when isnt needed....

i despise bards that keep mp song up when im on my sch at 75%mp , i despise bards that never sing too , but if u dont have resource issues , and u dont have mages...casting foe for the healer on pull (cleric stance) and even that ....they put some dots/nukes and go on healing duty ...saving MP is imporant too , u may need that mp to sing ballad later on....

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I see. I don't wish to tell you how to play, but from my perspective, I cringe when I see Army's Paean and/or Mage's Ballad show up in non-hardcore content. It could be useful for some however, I guess. For me, I know how to manage my own MP and do not require the aid of those songs. As I said, I could be wrong, but I am fairly certain Paean is generally a DPS loss for a team of 4. The biggest exception to this is when I do 14 raises on tentacle boss in Void Ark (true story, and for reference 14 raises = 37k MP and max 13K MP)

I do, sometimes, mention to the bard, "Hey thanks for Ballad, you can turn it off now :)". I'll throw this out if they are playing Ballad and I am 50%+ on MP (often more).

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I understand, and frankly I admit I don't watch Scholar's MP as much as the other healers, because frankly you guys have insane MP management (I know from experience of playing one myself, it's my favorite healer!). Most of the time I try to play Mage's if the healer is way below half on their pool, and a little less than half during more erratic content like Void Ark (ESPECIALLY on Chulainn, that boss can be a nightmare for healers). I rarely use Army's unless multiple melee dps in the group are super low on TP, or the tank is super low on it - most of the time it's rarely needed, seeing as ninjas can goad people, dragoons have Invig, etc. Honestly my primary song usage tends to be Foe's or Mage's.

And well, I usually try to pop a few of my damage cooldowns for when I have to drop into a song that cuts my damage. It won't entirely make up for it even while paired with WP, but it helps. Always feels kind of fun when I see a near 2k crit on Emp Arrow while I'm dropped in Mage's with just WP and some cooldowns going to make up for the hit I take.

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Originally Posted by UnstablePersonality

Machinists get it just as bad too with support skills lol Turrent makes up 25% of their damage which they lost because of having to use support skills (idk who thought putting them on turrent was smart)

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MCH turrets are used in the support skills because the reason you state...

Bard loses damage to sing songs (the ones both MCH and BRD can use) so the mch should lose the same.

If the mch didn't lose DPS then bard wouldn't be used in end game at all. Why take a person that loses dps to support to a class that can support and not lose dps at all.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

no1 is saying otherwise , but using MP song or TP song when pulling when every1 is at max mp/tp ...just because is part your job....makes no sense...

the BRD skills outside of FOE (+BV) are used to regen resources...so using songs when arent needes is detrimental to your MAIN ROLE , DPS.

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.... Where on earth did you even see me say I use TP/MP song when no one needs it.

Like did you just insert words into something I said? Because friend I never said I always have songs up even if they aren't needed. I use songs when they are, because that's why I have those skills.

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Originally Posted by Andrea

MCH turrets are used in the support skills because the reason you state...

Bard loses damage to sing songs (the ones both MCH and BRD can use) so the mch should lose the same.

If the mch didn't lose DPS then bard wouldn't be used in end game at all. Why take a person that loses dps to support to a class that can support and not lose dps at all.

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Point was it could of been done different is what I mean lol...truth be told there is a lot that could of been done different..but I like the class all the same.