According to the survey, an equal number of people play the tank and healer roles

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Originally Posted by Kalsam

No. It's NOT a statement about trust. Nadirah's talking about one of these scenarios:
1. I have melee, I know only this one mob makes me move to avoid stuff. Kill this, and then the entire group of mobs will stop moving.
2. There is two mobs that do an AoE, but I can only stun one every 20-25 sec (WAR/DRK, not PLD). Kill this, so I can focus on stopping the AoE.
3. There is a mob here with an AoE that debuffs everyone in a certain range without warning. Kill this so the healer's not continuously trying to cleanse us all.

Tanks whom mark targets like this cause they notice on say, the first or second pull with one of these scenarios that the dps are not killing those targets first (ie: they don't understand those targets are actually slowing the run by not dying asap) are NOT saying "I don't trust my group." They're saying "Hey, you may not realize this, but THIS mob dying will speed things up!"

Don't take offence, we're just doing our jobs: Protecting you, leading you and making the run smoother.

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Those are some OK points. I don't know if most people marking think that much about it.

In my experience, every run where a tank has marked has run much longer than without. That is to say, without marking my fastest run of Neverreap was 14 minutes. With marking, I think the fastest is closer to 27. There are other things at play here. The 14 minute run had a SCH and 2 SMN, be silly to mark with all that multi-dotting.

As a SMN, I am not going to focus down one target, I am going to spread my DPS evenly.

On another note, I don't need/want a tank to lead my groups necessarily. I just want them to charge into battle first.

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Originally Posted by Atmora

You obviously don't know about how to perform optimal dps because multi dotting is a far more efficient means of damage then focusing down one target.

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I'd like to be sarcastic in response, but I just don't feel like dealing with the resulting drama.

When you're multi-dotting, you still need to pick a target for the first to DoT, the Bane target, etc etc... And then something to use your fillers on when waiting to reapply dots.
Make that filler target, first target, whatever the MARKED target. Congrats, you've now "focused" the marked target. if you're JUST attacking the marked target, then yes... you obviously don't know about how to perform optimal dps. BUT, on the flip side, if you don't know how to "focus" while still AoE'ing, then you really need to learn how to perform optimal dps.

How about some surveys on things that actually matter. I don't care how many people drive blue cars compared to yellow cars.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Those are some OK points. I don't know if most people marking think that much about it.
-snipped-

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That can be easily realized based on how the tank is marking. Are they marking just the one target? If so, then it's probably a tank who's thinking about those scenarios.
I do this, and sounds like Nadirah does as well.

If, however, you have... a BLM/SMN or SMN/DRG, etc... basically anything except NIN/NIN, MNK/NIN or MNK/MNK (and even these are debatable... I guess it'd be based on how the first couple pulls go), then you should not be marking every target in the group. Just any that are important to kill. :D IF the dps are not already killing the important ones first.

But I agree, not ALL tanks think like this. And the good ones stand out, cause they'll look at the group and pull based on the group. Marking if they feel it's necessary to point out something, but otherwise... they're just gonna make the run go fast. :D

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Originally Posted by Kalsam

That can be easily realized based on how the tank is marking. Are they marking just the one target? If so, then it's probably a tank who's thinking about those scenarios.
I do this, and sounds like Nadirah does as well.

If, however, you have... a BLM/SMN or SMN/DRG, etc... basically anything except NIN/NIN, MNK/NIN or MNK/MNK (and even these are debatable... I guess it'd be based on how the first couple pulls go), then you should not be marking every target in the group. Just any that are important to kill. :D IF the dps are not already killing the important ones first.

But I agree, not ALL tanks think like this. And the good ones stand out, cause they'll look at the group and pull based on the group. Marking if they feel it's necessary to point out something, but otherwise... they're just gonna make the run go fast. :D

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I think that's it. Marking is probably good to do in some situations, I am just rarely in those situations as I am AoE king + know to do things like kill wasps first etc.

I do 1 expert a day on my pld. I have melded hybrid accessories so its not an aggro thing. Ive cleared A1S so not understanding my role isn't why. I have little to 0% issues with being in sword oath on bosses/pulling big so "slow dps" isn't why. It's the fact that EVERY SINGLE person I get from DF treats mindless dungeon runs as if it was a savage raid. If I wanna raid I'll go with my static, I don't feel obligated to play dungeons the way other people do forcing myself into a constant "serious raid time" mentality as doing neverreap flawlessly won't get me 210 gear. If the reward isn't bis than the effort shouldn't be either. When people calm down with the savage urgency I think all the tanks may que for more than ATM

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Originally Posted by Kalsam

And the good ones stand out, cause they'll look at the group and pull based on the group.

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Sadly the only thing that really makes tanks stand out is how much they can pull and how much dps they can do with the way the game works ATM.

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Originally Posted by Atmora

Sadly the only thing that really makes tanks stand out is how much they can pull and how much dps they can do with the way the game works ATM.

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Not always. I've been in a few groups where I've done some things to impress my group outside of mindless mass pulls and dps. But the chances for that are sadly lacking just cause the cards all need to fall right for it. lol
But aye, too many just look for tanks to do the mindless pulling and mass dps. >.< Which could be another reason. Some of us like to tank to be tanks. Not just a glorified dps who can take more hits. =\
If I wanna be a dps, I ask my friends to run with me, with either one of them tanking or I go as SMN with Titan tanking the run. :D

Well I mean the problem is that holding hate is so brained a simple there's no real skill involved in tanking besides mastering the dps nuances of your job and learning to do big pulls without your tank stance.

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Originally Posted by HolyGlassofWater

What makes people want to tank less in DF compared to healer?

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For me, it's how unbearably bad most DPS players I get grouped with on DF are. If I queue as a tank I can have terrible DPS and a healer not doing any damage, so going as a healer lets me do a bit more to carry the group. Last time I solo queued for expert roulette as a tank, it took about 36 minutes to clear Neverreap with geared players and no first timer... I'm used to clearing this dungeon in 17 minutes or less. If we had an in-game parser so DPS players knew when they needed to improve like tanks and healers, I might be willing to tank on DF more, but until then I just won't risk it.