Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

This does mean, however, that we can "borrow" some of the leniency of the first rotation for our third rotation now. The 2nd rotation is still the problem child.

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I wonder about that. If you use the whole 30 as efficiently as possible, say with procs and thunder during Umbral Ice, your second rotation might be just long enough to where you can just let enochian expire and wait the 5 seconds to refresh it.

Doesn't sound like a DPS increase, but it does sound like you're giving more leeway for procs which might be a net increase.

I don't think making thunder better was the right fix. It's like if you were having problems getting furniture through a doorway and the solution was to get heavier furniture. I guess you might have an easier time making a larger doorway, though probably not on purpose.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

It's not straight up multiplied like that. The initial hit potency is 390 since it includes the normal initial hit potency, it's just worded strangely. So it's ((40*8)+70))*2 you add the 70 before multiplying by 2 not after

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Why would the initial 70 damage hit twice? All I see from both tooltips is that TC is 390 initial and 320 DoT for a total of 710. Or wait... am I misreading it epically? Damnit.

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Originally Posted by Mercutial

Soooo.. I haven't play tested this yet. But doesn't the automatic 30sec Enochian refresh greatly increase our mobility (at least in the second and third go thru's of our rotation)? I understand the AF timer still enforces a bit of a chokehold, but this buff can only be a good thing I would think.

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Thing to take note, the cooldown of 60 seconds still remains.
Use too early to refresh in the middle of rotation means it will drop off earlier and end up waiting for the 60 seconds to be over.

Gotcha... I just read it as 30 sec (B4), 30 sec (B4), etc. As opposed to 30 sec (B4), 25 sec (B4), 20 sec (B4). My bad.

is it me or did we get an FU blm button IE enochian?

anyone find the miss accuracy for savage yet?

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Originally Posted by Xisin

anyone find the miss accuracy for savage yet?

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Dunno about A2, but A1 seems to be very low. Healers never miss at 497, I have 521 and don't miss.

The rotation I was using was B3 > T1 > Enochian > Fire 3 > F4 > F4 > F4 > B3 > B4 > F3 > F4x3. Ya know, I just took out lot of stuff from the opener and simplified it.

With the 'fix' to enochian, I can pretty much do that rotation about 4-5 times, barring mechanic dodging. With the fix.. and my days tanking stuff making my reaction time better than ever, I feel alittle more confident that I can do the actual rotation.

So what if you get a TC in the middle of your rotation, for example after your first F4, you would do this:

*umbral* - F3 - F4 *get tc proc* - F4 - F1 - TC - F4

Right? In this case, if you have enough time on enochian, would it be worth it to do 1 more F4 and after that, for the sake of dumping your remaining 3K mana in to a quick F1, before going umbral? Or would it be better to just go umbral asap so you can go to a full F4 rotation again sooner?

Ignore this

You need to change the mode in order to all options. Its hard to explain. The moblie friendly mode you're using is limited. I'm on my phone now and can do everything.

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Originally Posted by Twilite

You need to change the mode in order to all options. Its hard to explain. The moblie friendly mode you're using is limited. I'm on my phone now and can do everything.

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Sorry to continue the derail, but yes, the Mobile version of the site is missing options, if you run the site in desktop mode you will be able to edit posts and so forth.

Wouldn't it be safe to say that t3 is still low on priority? I've had best luck of not trying to force it into the rotation. Instead fitting it in when it profs and the opportunity seems right. Occasionally cutting out that last f4 to save the proc which would be a better qol choice anyway.

The rotation should be the same, with the exception sometimes using swift cast t1 or swift cast b4 to maintain buffs.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Or you can do F4 > B3 > B4/T3 > opposite as the rest of us "retarded" people do. Hell of a lot better than skipped F4 for T3 > B3 > B4 > oh shit I'm forced to use filler, I just traded a F4 for B1!

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Obviously if the TC last till umbral u do that. Didnt think id have to mention the most obvious shit. Im talking abut when it doesnt.

I see. Yes, after thinking about it I'm seeing a lot of advantages to repping the final F4 with a Thundercloud (shorter rotation, more damage, more mobile) iff you're not clipping heavily for some reason and you can't extend it to UI, probably the second to last F4 too.

Maths:

F4 > B3 > B4 > T1 = 504 + 280 + 270 with the potential to skip the T1 in which case it's 504 + 280
T3 > B3 > B4 > B1 = 780 + 280 + 180 with the potential to skip the B1 in which case it's 780 + 280

So, you'd gain 186 - 276 depending on if you had to use filler in this case. Still really not in favor of using Thundercloud in an area where it can clip though except as filler, for now my rule of thumb is ...

Use TC for multi-DoT > filler > final F4 > second to last F4.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

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His post stated it was worth it to use before the thunder buffs though, in which case it would have been a DPS loss.

I am so lost on rotations, and when people do thunders.

Like the potions, I am guessing potion of intelligence?

Yes potion of Intelligence ^ :)
Also while more of a rotation thread, perhaps any care to share if they use food or not?
I have been trying various different ones especially for EX Primals and results have been ok thus far

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Originally Posted by Maero

Yes potion of Intelligence ^ :)
Also while more of a rotation thread, perhaps any care to share if they use food or not?
I have been trying various different ones especially for EX Primals and results have been ok thus far

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I am using Creme Brulee HQ. 40 SSPD 13 det.

^ thank you for that, i will look into using it :)

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

I am using Creme Brulee HQ. 40 SSPD 13 det.

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I wish I wasn't so cheap. Am using leve funded NQ Sohm Al Tarts. Good enough.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Been doing some Alex NM farm before we can raid later ... BLM feels exactly the same... I kind of wonder why they did it in the first place when the complaints were about Enochian timers.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

It feels Spell Speed will get a stronger impact. That said, they definitely missed the train on making Thundercloud part of the rotation.

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Thanks for the feedback on this.

I wonder if it's worth it to create a new thread about the latest BLM Changes to get it more visibility to the Dev Team?

Buried in this BLM thread, I'm not sure if they'll see our thoughts on this?

That may be worthwhile.
BLM is... okay... The dps can be high IF nothing goes wrong. But that's the thing, IF ANYTHING goes wrong, your dps drops like a rock.
Personally, here's a short list of some of the things that happen on BLM (and how to easily address them) that make me want to curbstomp a puppy.

1. Old-Old issue, sometimes if you Transpose "too quickly" after Flare, Transpose goes off BEFORE Flare applies AF3 to you, resulting in you being stuck with 0 mp for at least 10 seconds, unless you have pot or Convert.
Solution: Make Flare not instantly apply AF3, but have it apply a stack of AF like F1/F2. This way the worst case scenario is you end up Transposing into UI1, but then lose the UI1 but still have normal mp regen. So you'd down for 3s not 10+.

2. New-Old issue, when you are casting B4 and either UI3 (due to Thundercloud use) or Enochian drop, and your cast just fizzles with 0.5s left.
Solution: Like with almost any other spell, if you started casting B4, then unless YOU move or are interrupted, the spell SHOULD finish regardless of buff conditions. The odd exception is B3 which can break if AF3 falls off and you do not have enough MP to cast the full cost B3. But B4 is not affected by this.

3. New-Old issue, similar to B4, if AF3 falls off during a F4 cast, JUST LET IT FINISH! I know I just royally f*cked my rotation for whatever reason, dont punish me more by wasting a full GCD worth of casting time! There was 0.5s left! Just let it go off!!!
Solution: Same as B4, if you start casting it, as long as you dont move and are not interrupted, LET IT LAND.

4. New-New issue, as others have stated, applying Thunder and trying to fit in Thundercloud procs into this already tight rotation only makes it worse... Cmon, we dont need to make it worse now do we?
Solution: Bear with me here, since the code is already in the game for DRG... Make it so every time any Thunder spell successfully lands on a target, the current duration of Enochian is INCREASED by 5 seconds. Suddenly Thundercloud is quite useful! You still have to be aware of your AF/UI timer while using it, but with this affect you actually BENEFIT from using Thunder during Enochian, if only slightly.

And a general QoL request which will hopefully not continue to fall on deaf ears...
Make it so F4 at least somehow affects the Astral Fire stack. Again, the code is there, make it so every time you using F4 the AF stack timer is increase by 1-2 seconds. Even 1 second would be a blessing! Every 2 successful F4's adds enough leeway in the timer to fail to refresh the AF stack by 1 GCD, and STILL be able to refresh it in time. In retrospect 2 seconds may be pushing it, since you could (in theory) cast 4+ F4's in a row, losing 1s on AF3 each time... though that would be a rotation onto itself.
Of course there is the simplest solution... make F4 instantly apply AF3 like F3 and Flare. Yes this means that the Fire cycle will produce more net potency, well in exchange for that, reduce the potency of B4 to 180.

There are many little things that would help make BLM feel a lot more fluid and polished... kind of like it felt in the early 2.0 cycle.

Edit cause I dont feel like making another post: @Ferth giving F4 a "high" chance to proc F3 would be helpful, at least a 50% chance. Again in a "ideal" world F4 would do something to perpetuate its own use... 50% chance to proc FS would be a start.
Hmm, here's a possibility, give F4 its own sub-effect which makes the next F1 instant. This will not significantly increase dps since you'll still be limited by your total MP, BUT if you have access to an instant F1 after every F4 then you can quite readily maintain the AF3 stack after being interrupted, or while dodging some large aoe, and having an instant F1 would remove the issue of just barely missing the AF3 refresh. Um, this may very well be a viable solution...

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

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All very good suggestions, though rather than having fire 4 affect AF stacks I think it should be able to proc firestarter. Since f3 is no longer our strongest spell outside of flare and since we have to worry about enochian falling off it would turn firestarter procs into a utility cast. Need to move? Fire 3. Accidentally lost all your AF stacks? Fire 3. This solution would give is slightly more dps in ideal situations without an unnecessary flat potency increase and would give us more tools for mobility and utility than we have now.

As well as bringing what used to be a key blm mechanic back into play.

So far the Thundercloud change was extremely beneficial in A1 Savage. You can definitely exploit 2 targets to get multiple procs. I'm also extremely satisfied with my first kill parse on BLM. I did 1009 DPS and this is considering I got hit by a missile and lost damage near the end. It wasn't the best but regardless I am content with it. I like the hard DPS checks, it's really challenging.

My group was Paladin, Dark Knight, Scholar (Fey Glow pull, rest Eos), White Mage, Monk, Ninja, Bard, Black Mage.

I'm curious about my how fellow BLMs performed in that turn. Unfortunately, I am a SMN for A2. Black Mage is definitely viable in A1 Savage.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

I'm curious about my how fellow BLMs performed in that turn. Unfortunately, I am a SMN for A2. Black Mage is definitely viable in A1 Savage.

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I didn't manage to break 1k, did about 50 less than you. There were some enrage wipes with me above 1k though, so I'm confident I can reach it. Group comp is PLD, WAR, SCH, WHM, MNK, BRD, SMN, BLM. It looks really bad now that I'm watching the video because I dropped Enochian early a couple of times trying to position adds and didn't bother reapplying it before the jump because I'd just lose it again, so I just used 2.0 rotation until the jump and the thunder change really helped my DPS here I think. I made a lot of stupid decisions during adds where I could have done much better, but it was our best pull yet so I was just focused on not wiping the group. Also used a Pot when it was off CD instead of saving it for after the final jump, something I'll remember next week.

I'm also going with SMN on A2 for progression, there's no denying the difference in DPS. Double SMN is gonna be nice on that fight.

Might actually try BLM for A1S next week. Doesn't seem too bad movement wise.

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Originally Posted by Lavitz_

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

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Please share tips/pointers! Or stuff you've learned from re watching a kill and figuring out better ways to do things.

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Originally Posted by Vateri

Please share tips/pointers! Or stuff you've learned from re watching a kill and figuring out better ways to do things.

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Your DPS before the split is most important, so of course you want to squeeze out anything you can. As Aikaal said, spreading Thundercloud procs to both bosses is a nice DPS boost and it just starts raining procs which also help with movement, so you want to be doing that as much as you can. When the first two adds spawn, don't cast more than one Fire IV on them as you'll be wasting DPS if your other party members are also attacking them, I'm seeing 9k-10k crits on those sometimes.

I'm still trying to figure out the best way to handle adds, it can be frustrating at times. The rest of the fight is pretty straightforward.

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Originally Posted by Lavitz_

Your DPS before the split is most important, so of course you want to squeeze out anything you can. As Aikaal said, spreading Thundercloud procs to both bosses is a nice DPS boost and it just starts raining procs which also help with movement, so you want to be doing that as much as you can. When the first two adds spawn, don't cast more than one Fire IV on them as you'll be wasting DPS if your other party members are also attacking them, I'm seeing 9k-10k crits on those sometimes.

I'm still trying to figure out the best way to handle adds, it can be frustrating at times. The rest of the fight is pretty straightforward.

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How often are you throwing procs out when the multi-dot fest begins? Do you find yourself using fire IV a lot less just because of the sheer number of Thunderclouds you can possibly throw out?

I learned something fun on Faust the other day: Quelling Strikes + Smoke Screen is literally -100% threat. I didn't even get a threat bar under my icon while both were on me.

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Originally Posted by Vateri

Please share tips/pointers! Or stuff you've learned from re watching a kill and figuring out better ways to do things.

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I need to wait the OK of my FC before I can do that.

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Originally Posted by Vateri

How often are you throwing procs out when the multi-dot fest begins? Do you find yourself using fire IV a lot less just because of the sheer number of Thunderclouds you can possibly throw out?

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Trying to figure this out. Fire IV is still more potent than thundercloud unless it ticks near it's full duration. Even though multi-dotting is still more dps and you should be doing it, you should still cast fire IV unless there's not much time left on the dot. So alot of procs will still go to waste if you're getting a lot of them. It is however great for movement. But if you're having to move and use multiple thunderclouds, your enochian is done anyways. It's trying to find that prefect balance that's fun

When do you guys use Enochian after the split in A1 savage? I'm conflicted whether to use it right when they crash down or after I kill my add, because of the danger of dropping Enochian while trying to position the add to the missile.

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Originally Posted by Hontaro

When do you guys use Enochian after the split in A1 savage? I'm conflicted whether to use it right when they crash down or after I kill my add, because of the danger of dropping Enochian while trying to position the add to the missile.

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Personally, my enochian is up from the start all the way until the first set of adds that you have to move spawn (second set of adds). I will usually let it fall off here and it will be back up as soon as my add dies and preys go out. From that point, I will recast enochian immediately after I kill my add (during preys) until the boss jumps, and I will keep doing that for the rest of the fight. I don't find there is enough time right when they come down, before adds spawn again, to get the most out of enochian, and rather not have to worry about it while dodging poison and positioning adds.

Well, from how far I've gotten in A3, it looks to be a BLM fight to me! The first 50% anyway.

Let you know in like 2 weeks how the second 50% is ...

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Originally Posted by Hontaro

When do you guys use Enochian after the split in A1 savage? I'm conflicted whether to use it right when they crash down or after I kill my add, because of the danger of dropping Enochian while trying to position the add to the missile.

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I keep it up at all times and when adds pop a swift b4 reset to drag them then f3 f4 bomb takes em out then a slight step in any direction back to f4 bombing the remainder of enochian.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Well, from how far I've gotten in A3, it looks to be a BLM fight to me! The first 50% anyway.

Let you know in like 2 weeks how the second 50% is ...

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So SE devs made sure it was gear-checked real good this time around eh?

What do you guys think of the crafted i180 body? I'm thinking of getting it because it will be 4 weeks before I can get the i190 one, but getting the Esoteric one is also going to take 4 more weeks. I don't really like the stats on the i190 anyway which is why I didn't bother getting it, and I'm way above accuracy cap as it is.

i190 Caster body has +8 Int over i180 with +77 Acc and +52 Det

i180 Crafted has +66 Det, +48 Spell Speed and you can meld +45 Crit

It will also allow me to build a set around a body with 0 Accuracy so I'll be ready for the Esoteric body.

The real question is how did you get the mats to make it?

Astral oil is pounding me atm