RIP Bard

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

The sole reason I play Bard is because it's the only job that can freely move around while doing it's job.

If this is some extra thing that I can decide if I will use or not..cool.

If it undeniably makes you better than a Bard that DOESN'T use this skill and everyone will get mad at me for not using it then.. I guess I don't have a main job anymore. Maybe Botanist. /sigh..

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the fact that people are making comments like yours because you have to work a little bit harder to do more damage is baffling and disappointing. you know all of two things about this song; it adds a cast time to moves and increases dmg of moves. the only valid worry i have seen people bring up is about blood leter and thats it.

your thoughts pretty much come down to this; "Oh no, i cant run and shoot and still keep up with others using a certain skill anymore! JOB BROKEN, THANKS SE!"

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

the only valid worry i have seen people bring up is about blood leter and thats it.

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My favourite thing about this is that if you look at the video it appears they do use a Bloodletter but it looks a little bit different (Song -> Venom -> Wind -> Bloodletter? -> Barrage -> Heavy Shot? -> Sidewinder (dot buff), we have the smallest details on Minuet and it may change so many things. Bloodletter may actually be one of them. Probably something that disables it from Proccing for a trade-off while in Minuet.

Oh well, not be a surprise that people are jumping too conclusions without knowing the other over-half of bards new abilities.

It's fine people being against the concept of the skill, but people jumping to conclusions on how it interacts with other abilities is just straight up hilarious -- and some people even thinking SE hasn't considered the trade-offs made to use Minuet and haven't factored that into how much it buffs your skills is really, really sad, and unfortunately shows how little confidence players have in SE.

And to be honest, you could see this ability coming from the stratosphere of pluto.

I don't mind Wanderer's Minute as long as it means not accidentally shooting an un agroed mob when you're trying to target and focus it. If anything running and shooting just makes for good kiting in certain situations. Otherwise Wanderer's minute looks more like something you'd use for specific damage rotations.

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

you know all of two things about this song; it adds a cast time to moves and increases dmg of moves. the only valid worry i have seen people bring up is about blood leter and thats it.

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Actually, we know three things. Firstly that it adds a cast time, secondly that it increases damage and thirdly that it removes auto-attacks. I agree we'll have to wait and see whether the benefits outweigh the costs, but I can fully understand why people are skeptical given how much we're sacrificing overall.

Most Brd feel uncomfortable when they play Blm,but For Blm playing as Brd,its like heaven.

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Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon

No I didn't, lol. I just got up and watched the job skill video and was horrified when I saw a delay on Windbite and Poison Shot.

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Originally Posted by Irie

And then instantly went to the forums and made a complain thread. Way to go.

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This is why we can't have nice things.

All these Bards trying to act like they weren't going to be Dark Knights anyway...

I never liked Bard in the current state of things, but unlike everyone else who seems to now hate the "new" Bard. I am loving the sound of Wanderers Minuet, it actually sounds quite skillful and tactical.

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

the fact that people are making comments like yours because you have to work a little bit harder to do more damage is baffling and disappointing. you know all of two things about this song; it adds a cast time to moves and increases dmg of moves. the only valid worry i have seen people bring up is about blood leter and thats it.

your thoughts pretty much come down to this; "Oh no, i cant run and shoot and still keep up with others using a certain skill anymore! JOB BROKEN, THANKS SE!"

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Uhm... what's your point?

I'm not against working harder. The only thing I'm saying is that I like playing Bard the most because we have the freedom to move around, which we are now getting a skill we know that will limit it somehow. I'm not even saying HOW it will limit it, because nobody knows, and I clearly made a concise point telling which way I would like the new skill to work and which way I would not like it to work, without making any assumptions, but simply being sad if it turns out the way I don't want it to.

Furthermore, don't assume people play Bard because it's EASIER than any other job. It isn't.

Good job on being rude though.

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Originally Posted by GalkaBikini

All these Bards trying to act like they weren't going to be Dark Knights anyway...

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Unlikely. Just because they slap a fancy name with a dark theme on a tank job is not going to make me prefer tank jobs over DPS jobs. Not to mention they are introducing a ranged job, that shoots things, with the ability to nearly freely move around as Bards do.. So yeah, I'll be trying Machinist.

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Unlikely. Just because they slap a fancy name with a dark theme on a tank job is not going to make me prefer tank jobs over DPS jobs. Not to mention they are introducing a ranged job, that shoots things, with the ability to nearly freely move around as Bards do.. So yeah, I'll be trying Machinist.

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But... But... They have an attachment you can use to... shock and horror - make you stand still and... charge your attacks for more damage!

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Unlikely. Just because they slap a fancy name with a dark theme on a tank job is not going to make me prefer tank jobs over DPS jobs. Not to mention they are introducing a ranged job, that shoots things, with the ability to nearly freely move around as Bards do.. So yeah, I'll be trying Machinist.

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

But... But... They have an attachment you can use to...shock and horror - make you stand still and... charge your attacks for more damage!

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Well played. Well played indeed.

Bard is my current main class for two reasons: it's rotation is based on priority and procs and it's the only job that isn't completely crippled by the amount of combat lag I have. Sometimes the red aoe indicator merely flashes just before the hit happens. Sometimes if I focus on the enemies' cast bars, the casts end before reaching the end of the cast bar. Essentially I have less time to react than other people and that often leads to me tanking the floor or taking unnecessary damage. (Yes I'm working on solving the lag.) Playing bard allows me to run around, leaving trails of aoe circles/rectangles behind me without getting hit by any of them. Just some perspective on why you see some bards running like crazy. :P

I will probably end up not using Minuet in certain content but at the same time I'm happy it will become an option for my fellow bards. Machinist sounds very interesting and I hope it's not a complete turret like BLM.

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

But... But... They have an attachment you can use to... shock and horror - make you stand still and... charge your attacks for more damage!

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So?

They're not Bards, which already have a firmly established way of being played.

Nice try, but such an utter fail. ;)

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

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Work a little bit harder? No, that's not our issue. If they wanted to add a new dynamic to our class they could have very well done something other than shoving an entirely different playstyle on us. ESPECIALLY a playstyle that some of us chose Bard to avoid. Sorry, but I loathe casting times, they suck. The very idea that they're are just pinning casting times on us if we're gonna parse better DPS is bull.

And on another note, Bloodletter is a big deal for Bards. So yeah, not sure where to put OGCD stuff is aggravating too. Also negating Auto Attacks also negates a cooldown we have. So as far as it goes right now a good deal of our kit just gets jacked up just so we can play pretend-caster.

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

So?

They're not Bards, which already have a firmly established way of being played.

Nice try, but such an utter fail. ;)

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

The sole reason I play Bard is because it's the only job that can freely move around while doing it's job.

If this is some extra thing that I can decide if I will use or not..cool.

If it undeniably makes you better than a Bard that DOESN'T use this skill and everyone will get mad at me for not using it then.. I guess I don't have a main job anymore. Maybe Botanist. /sigh..

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Wouldn't the inclusion of attachments to the Machinist skillset that require standing still to be better create the same issue that you have with the Bard adjustments? Is your issue with the lack of free movement and the positive gains from strategically not moving to do more damage or is it with the fact that 51-60 adds to the established Brd mechanics from 1-50?

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

They're not Bards, which already have a firmly established way of being played.

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Yes, Bards do have a firmly established way of being played, but given your argument it doesn't look like you know what that is, either. The majority of a Bard's non-archer based abilities are, oddly enough, related to songs. Thus, it's firmly established that you are a support role. If all you care about is damage output, then you're not being a very good Bard. Oh, wait, Square just introduced a song that's all about the damage output! Hurray, Heavensward lets you play Bard how you want! Oh, wait...

I am sorta getting the feeling people think I am opposed to jobs that have to move or use casting timers. /shrugs

Oh and Bards play songs? No way! :D Hint: Sarcasm. By the way, playing a song has rooted us into place for a while in the past, and I have survived. Go figure.

Would you all just try to relax and wait until the expansion pack comes out? o.o Speculation is nice and all but all I thought was "I might not like it." and ya'll freaked out. Keep it together man, keep it together...

I think that the supportive role of the bard right now is an important part of being bard, with the inclusion of the machinist that will play a supportive role too it could feel like that people don't need a bard if they already have a machinist in the party
That new song will make that if you don't need to play a supportive rol then you can play a more damage dealing rol
something like: "Don't you need my songs?, then I will be a turret"

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

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>Their Support aspect is only really limited to progression (ballad) or prolonged fights...in which monks are already getting their own means of TP restoration.

>We don't even know how much Minuet is supposed to increase, along side every other class getting new tools. Is this supposed to be a new meta and our dps would still be a little bit lower in comparison, assuming perfect circumstances? Would our overall dps actually be relatively lower compared to now if we were to not utilize minuet at all? Thinking that it's an "option" to increase our dps is just as bad of a assumption as it not being good, when it could be a mandatory part of the class for all we know.

Not to mention, it's using a goddamn song to change how we shoot arrows. I'm all for a turret mode, but aesthetics to me has always been the weakest point for bard, one of the reasons why I'm changing to machinist.

u dont have to use it u know? u can ignore it...u will lose dmg but keep the movility....

im going to use and enjoy it , i only hate the charging animation (reaching the quiver really?) , but its all i have been asking for , more dmg ! , i give up the moving and shooting ? yes , but if the dmg boost is enough to compensate , im more than happy :D

remember that u arent ROOTED u can still move, u will lose the cast like BLM does now, but u can start casting again....it will suck when u are learning a boss ? yes , but once u learned it u will love the dmg boost that this stance give u , a few bosses ask to move 100% of the time not even the old titan extreme....ask u to move all the time, and even as i said turn the buff down and play like always or keep it up and do more dmg while u arent moving.

maybe finally now Battle voice does something for Brds too :o (one can dream!)

lets wait and see :)

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

u dont have to use it u know? u can ignore it...u will lose dmg but keep the movility....

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You miss the point. If it's here, it means bard dps is balanced around it. It also means you'll have to use it if you want to be good and actually clear content (not talking about trivial and on farm content). Not using it will mean that someone willing to use it will bring more and be more useful than you.
I don't play bard, but can understand the complaint on what has been announced.

I wish this ability worked a bit more like Sniper Training in WoW where after being still for 3 seconds, damage goes up and the buff falls off when in motion. Stopping in every momentary lull to sing means singing a looot if you want optimal up time on the buff. To me that's not challenging, it's clunky. There are a ton of movement heavy fights in this game.

edit: looks like movement does NOT dispel Wanderer's Minuet so recasting won't be necessary as often if you are just hopping left out of a targeting area. It still seems like optimal dps from Bards will focus on Bards being turrets, though. I can stand still as a Bard and often do but the reason I took it up as a second class was I liked to do all I could do while being in motion if I had to. It was a welcome change from my main class (BLM) even if I don't put out the same explosive numbers. My own opinion though, obviously people who main Bard feel differently.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

u dont have to use it u know? u can ignore it...u will lose dmg but keep the movility....

im going to use and enjoy it , i only hate the charging animation (reaching the quiver really?) , but its all i have been asking for , more dmg ! , i give up the moving and shooting ? yes , but if the dmg boost is enough to compensate , im more than happy :D

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And this is what bothers me. Now I know I can't tell you to not play Bard, but you've been wanting so much so to do more damage, and you're willing to sacrifice mobility? Why didn't you ever just pick up BLM? This whole playing Class A thing but wanting it to function like Class B without just playing Class B thing, it's kinda some backward thinking. It's like eating a Granny Smith and hating that it tastes kinda sour, so you start making requests it should start tasting like a Red Delicious. But you know, some of us want that taste from the Granny Smith, and you can very well eat your Red Delicious.

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

snip.

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Even with the change, BRD will play very different from BLM. It'll likely play closer to SMN. First off Wanderer's Minuet might likely only be efficient for DoT setting, since being able to rapid fire Heavy Shots and Bloodletters has thus far been the entire point of the BRD's DPS outside their DoTs. Unless it's a HUGE damage upgrade, it would still be more worthwhile to get more hits off with Heavy Shot in a short amount of time than it would be to increase each one's damage.
But also as a perk, it's up to the bard themselves to make this call. This allows for differences in playstyles, as well as circumstantial adaptability. The BLM will ALWAYS be pinned down, the BRD won't be. Being able to have decisions to make is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon

What's really funny is that if you actually do have another song on when you have this stance up then you're really doing it wrong...

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Not if you have Foe's on...most of these comments must be coming from players that do not play Bard. It is hard to say until we actually see all the abilities and what the actual wording on them is but the way I see it is that you will most likely still do the burst opener and then use the song when able to maintain your dps during the time your buffs are on cool down and then you can go back into burst when it is available again. Sidewinder sounds like it is going to be pretty bad ass to me. I hope that is not all the abilities they get and I wonder what the "changes" to their abilities will be.

Playing bard has always been pure joy to me. The constant movement creates a flowing playstyle that captured me from the beginning. I've avoided all other classes that have to stop to cast so these new changes are against everything I've ever enjoyed about playing bard. My DPS is just fine thank you, we don't need this change. I would have preferred to see more support abilities or even a better LB. People will adapt and make it work, but in essence you're breaking the spirit of bard. Free the bards! :)

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Originally Posted by Ken_8O

Playing bard has always been pure joy to me. The constant movement creates a flowing playstyle that captured me from the beginning. I've avoided all other classes that have to stop to cast so these new changes are against everything I've ever enjoyed about playing bard. My DPS is just fine thank you, we don't need this change. I would have preferred to see more support abilities or even a better LB. People will adapt and make it work, but in essence you're breaking the spirit of bard. Free the bards! :)

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Just saying, but we are getting a new LB3.

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Originally Posted by Spiritreaver1217

Just saying, but we are getting a new LB3.

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A damage LB exclusive to physical ranged dps and a new LB3 for each job.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

A damage LB exclusive to physical ranged dps and a new LB3 for each job.

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Cheers for that.

The special thing about Bard is their freedom to be mobile (IMO)... this kills that, just like how positional's being added to Ninja detract from the spirit of their design.

This ability needs to be shifted to Machinist instead, tweaked slightly to fit them appropriately, & renamed "Deployment" or "Snipe."

People saying it won't be a requirement... to play the class effectively, it will be.

You will be burnt to the stake if you avoid using it just like how players will ostracize you for not singing.

It will further create a very unhealthy, social environment--much worse than we have now.

You will get flamed in-game very harshly for neglecting to utilize this ability, it's certain to happen.

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Originally Posted by Yuri_Hyuga

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Honestly, I was under the impression that the "stand-still for effective dps" thing was going to be a machnist gimmick, at least that was my impression in one of the liveletter presentation. Not that I have a problem with bards getting it, but some people play bard for the free-mobility dps. If it ends up being mandatory for them to pull reasonable dps, then they might as well switch to machinist or they're SoL if machinist can't do that effectively either.

It's on the same line as the BLM not using enochain for their IV spells, or warriors/SMNs not being able to effectively manage their deliverance during OT/dreadwyrm trance.

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Originally Posted by Yuri_Hyuga

The special thing about Bard is their freedom to be mobile...

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You and I have very different ideas on what is special about Bard. What is special about archer is being a highly mobile DD. What is special about Bard is persistent AoE support in the form of songs. Yes, Bard is still an archer, but it's focus stops being strictly about dealing damage. "Noone asked for this." though is what's in dispute, and is wholly wrong. We've been asking for this for a long time, just not in this particular form. People have been wanting a Ranger Job for too long, but seems that the experiment of two Jobs per class (Summoner/Scholar to arcanist) didn't get the reception Square was hoping for. So instead they gave Bard some Ranger potential via a new song. It's going to be up to Bards in seeing how well the idea will work. I'm excited for it.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

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Ranger in concept would've been nice as a stationary phyiscal ranged dps, with channeled time on shots and such. Though I mean honestly at this point, the job/class thing gets so interchanged that you might as well consider the two the same, exception of being SMN/SCH (which comes with their own problems).

When you only have one class to play with though, it's going to set the playstyle into stone, and changing it would have unpredictible reactions from the players. You can't break archer from bard, or at least it's not feasible because of lack of cross skills and the DEX lost. To me, Bard = Archer as far as describing playstyles is concerned, but that's semantics.

I really do no see wanderer's minuet being an "optional" sort of thing though. Feels like soemthing you'd have to get a hang of in order to pull respectable numbers as a bard. Otherwise, you won't be able to keep up with other classes that get new abilities that add onto their existing style.

Should probably let this die, but I wonder what new effect Barrage may have while under Minuet. They said you won't be able to auto attack, but they also used Barrage in the video so my guess is that it becomes a buff of some sort while under Minuet or that it get's expended for the use of a powerful skill.

I think that this is an attempt at making skill speed more valuable. The more speed you have, the faster you will cast. I am farming skill speed gear in addition to my bis in coil to get ready for it.

So, they are bringing back the rooting from 1.23? The rooting is what caused BRD to be shunned in 1.23. Another thing, when will this be viable in ARR? I mean ARR is nothing but an AoE fest so forcing us to root ourselves is suicide. NINs assassinate and DRGs jump are in the same boat. Use them at the wrong time and you are dead.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

I think that this is an attempt at making skill speed more valuable. The more speed you have, the faster you will cast. I am farming skill speed gear in addition to my bis in coil to get ready for it.

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Speed is only really "useful" for blms because of their unlimited resources. In the end, you're still chewing through TP faster and hit rock rock bottom on TP sooner. Unless the changes to skill/spell speed addresses that.

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

This time last year

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Not me and I have mained BRD since 1.23. I was practically forced to level something else because the rooting caused almost everyone to hate BRDs

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Originally Posted by Yuri_Hyuga

The special thing about Bard is their freedom to be mobile (IMO)... this kills that, just like how positional's being added to Ninja detract from the spirit of their design.

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Nope.

/10char