BLM Buffs Inc!

You are right, you caught me, I cant break 300 DPS on any turn, BLM is super weak, please buff them nao!

That claim was never made. It's definitely possible to break 300 DPS but on T6 or 7 it's just nonsense. It is possible when the RNG Gods are upon you perhaps and when you have a level 110 weapon. BLM really needs a buff. But show me some proof of you though. I am actually interested because it means I can become better. And get better by a lot so it seems.

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Originally Posted by ViviAnimus

Personally, I don't believe anything you say, Esca. I know for a fact that Monks get 350-380 DPS.

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If we're talking about T8, our MNK has scored over 460 with i115 weapon but minimal i110 on his left side, and someone else doing his Dragon Kicks. Even with "just" i110 weapon it's pretty easy to score over 400 on T8.

I could see Escaflowne's numbers being right; as always with claims of DPS, it mostly depends on the strategy they used, levels of gear, comp, and duration of the fight. If in T6 their strategy is to, say, have their BLM do double Flare on the 3 slugs and boss at the same time with double Foe's playing, I don't see an issue with a 330 DPS claim (not saying 330 is impossible otherwise). If they end their fight close to a RS usage it'll be 10-20 more than a fight that goes on an extra minute beyond that, stuff like that. Maybe a 2 BRD comp, both of them popping Ethers, for maximum Foe's up-time. You just have to take perspective that the situation you have as BLM might not let you do as much as another BLM's situation allows him to do.

Which is essentially saying "oh sure, X class can do Y dps, no problem, we'll just fudge it!"

A monk who never has to do Dragon Kick should outparse a monk who does.
A group with 2 bards, alternating Foe's, and letting a BLM, maybe 2 BLMs, double Raging Flare the 3 slugs under a Battle Voiced Foe's, (to save the LB) will always magically have a BLM parsing MUCH higher than a regular composition.

IDK, I am not trying to be an ass or call anyone out saying they did this or whatnot. Frankly, if your group is so well geared and so skilled that you wanted to have some fun and did some weird variation of the usual methods, more power to ya.
But if you then turn around and say that the results of your modified strategy should be considered the norm... then we have a problem.

I remember how, back when Titan Extreme was new, and people loved XIVAPP, there was a BLM who showed how he did about 40% of the group's dps and was at about 400-500 dps on Titan EX.
However, this was shown as a single bar graph, showing his name, his dps, and what % of the total his personal dps was.
Well we later found out that this was his dps right after doing a Raging Double Swiftcast Flare on Titan + 2 Gaolers... This was a 4-6 second parse on 3 targets... We then laughed a bit since thats kinda low. ;)

http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/...vi-154x300.jpg

You're welcome... Couldnt resist. =)

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

http://puu.sh/8VXj3.jpg

From a friend from an unaffiliated group to me that I have nothing to do with, and I am certainly not in their group. Also their other MNK forgot Fist of Fire, he's very bad and was definitely not me.

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I can't figure out why my ACT says Monks have 173 DPS with BLMs doing 260+. It's probably due to log not being found but I'm not sure where this is located.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

I can't figure out why my ACT says Monks have 173 DPS with BLMs doing 260+. It's probably due to log not being found but I'm not sure where this is located.

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sometimes autoattacks get separated

But this is with someone else doing the Dragon kicks and stuff, no? It's still a pretty impressive number, but it's not the norm. I am still sceptical about it though. I'd much rather see a video. It seems weird to me that you say that the other monk forgot FoF and that he's very very bad. It's almost as if your friend told you this in order to prove a point? But anyway, it's still a picture and it only tells me that Monk is incredibly overpowered if you are able to get this kind of result. @Sleigh
Then I must also add that your logic is flawed when you say: 'Because the Monk did that much damage -> Therefore the numbers being claimed by Esca are true. 370 DPS on a SMN seems about right and very good. A BLM doesn't even come close unless the RNG is upon him or her.

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Originally Posted by ViviAnimus

But this is with someone else doing the Dragon kicks and stuff, no? It's still a pretty impressive number, but it's not the norm. I am still sceptical about it though. I'd much rather see a video. It seems weird to me that you say that the other monk forgot FoF and that he's very very bad. It's almost as if your friend told you this in order to prove a point? But anyway, it's still a picture and it only tells me that Monk is incredibly overpowered if you are able to get this kind of result. @Sleigh
Then I must also add that your logic is flawed when you say: 'Because the Monk did that much damage -> Therefore the numbers being claimed by Esca are true. 370 DPS on a SMN seems about right and very good. A BLM doesn't even come close unless the RNG is upon him or her.

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Why can't you just accept you aren't as good of a Black Mage as you think you are instead of attacking others?

Why is it that there always must be a certain person who loses all of the powers of deduction. Is it really so hard to calculate other possiblilites? I am not even a hardcore gamer but I consider myself to be more than capable. I just think it's suspicious that there is a DPS gap of 50-80 when the BLM's rotation doesn't even allow it (in this case). Why do I make this claim? Because as I have said before, I use my cooldowns effectively, use AM, continue casting and all of the other stuff that has been said before.
All I demand is one single video of a BLM who does the DPS that has been claimed here. How is that even attacking someone? I never used an insult, I just showed scepticism, and I still do!
So either people come with some concrete proof, or they should remain silent. As I said before. Personal anecdotes are no logical proof. Even pictures are neglectable. The only thing I don't do what does cause a DPS increase is using potions.
Another thing that might be a cause is the difference in gear.

I see soms Black Mages who have overmelded gear. I go with the Coil drops and try and build a SS build. My determination was like 230, critical hit around 500 and spell speed around 480. I see some Black mages with 335 determination which is 115 more than what I have. If it's true that 1 intelligence is about 5 det, than that's 23 intelligence and that is a lot! Sometimes I think that spell speed is absolutly usesless, regardless of what people say.
But yeah, it just shows that your simplistic reasoning, Uninstall, just doesn't cut it. There are multiple factors that might cause more DPS. One: the claim can be purely false, two the gear might differ and three I might indeed be less skilled than others, which is actually very true.
But again, I demand solid proof.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntWUqpFcuBk
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1720787/

This is a video before I actually used AE and learnt to manage better and I have improved quite a bit since then. I will put up videos of T6 and T7 and then we'll see what goes wrong.

I agree with you, vivi. I'd like to see proof rather than just claims. I know I have room to improve, but sustained 340dps blm on t6 (and even more on the t7+8) is highly doubtful and i'd like to be proven wrong.

@Vivi
I don't record runs, though I do have some outdated parses from ACT (I usually stop parsing once we 1-shot the encounter i.e. the week following the first clear). Would those be sufficient?
I can clearly say though for each turn I play as greedily as possible to do as much DPS as possible.

It wouldn't hurt at all. But of course I am looking for 300+ DPS on T6 and T7. T6 should be absolutely possible, I say. But yes, it would be appreciated.

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Originally Posted by ViviAnimus

It seems weird to me that you say that the other monk forgot FoF and that he's very very bad. It's almost as if your friend told you this in order to prove a point?

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Yes, his "friend" is very very bad.

^ i think that one went over your head, vivi

Yes, yes. But let us not digress and please send some concrete proof which confirms the possibilty of the claims made in this thread (directed to those who were up for it).

give them time. It's not easy to line everything up perfectly in photoshop

Took a while, had to find the date of my kill and edit out names, etc. etc,.
http://imgur.com/SV80XmK,uBfJHMw#0
First page is the clear, Second page shows that I didn't flare at the end.
Not sure how to show foes, we had two bard it was up 30-40% of the time I believe.

I had the weathered laevaetinn (sp?) at the time, along with weathered sold legs (don't ask, I'm retarded), along with pentamelded hat and chest, sold ring, HA feet.

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Originally Posted by ViviAnimus

But this is with someone else doing the Dragon kicks and stuff, no? It's still a pretty impressive number, but it's not the norm. I am still sceptical about it though. I'd much rather see a video. It seems weird to me that you say that the other monk forgot FoF and that he's very very bad. It's almost as if your friend told you this in order to prove a point? But anyway, it's still a picture and it only tells me that Monk is incredibly overpowered if you are able to get this kind of result. @Sleigh
Then I must also add that your logic is flawed when you say: 'Because the Monk did that much damage -> Therefore the numbers being claimed by Esca are true. 370 DPS on a SMN seems about right and very good. A BLM doesn't even come close unless the RNG is upon him or her.

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Yes that's with someone doing Dragon Kick for him, but he's been parsed in a training dummy solo and he's gotten 440 with his current gear, without the sparse but effective multi-DoTs and double hit of Howling Fist we get from the two Dreadnaughts we spawn. MNK is hardly overpowered in the slightest - they're only overpowered in a training dummy fight where they get no drops in GL3, which makes them overpowered in T8, but beyond that they can fluctuate worse than BLM can if the fight's unkind to them.

I'm not basing the possibility of Escaflowne's numbers being correct because the MNKs you play with aren't doing as much as the MNKs I know. I'm basing them around my numbers as BLM if I had a better situation in T6-8, like going HAM with Flares on Slugs and forcing other people to break my tether 24/7, 330 would be nothing. BRD BRD isn't the most uncommon comp either, it happens and caster numbers go up for it. Trust me, I'm one of the biggest proponents of BLM needing buffs. They're not balanced, and I've made numerous posts about how bad they are, but that doesn't mean they're incapable of getting good numbers with enough practice and the right strat and comp.

Alright! I can definitely agree with that!
@ Blacker Mage, that is turn 6 and I would argue with a level 100 weapon that is possible. It's very impressive regardless. But might I ask though. What is the tactic being used? Do you guys run to the branches or just through the boss? I see the time and seems like you wrecked it too. You probably skipped the second bee as well. What happens in my group is that usually we have to wait for the honey (second and bee) to spawn and that's when my dps plummets of course. But still, it must have been pretty lucky on you. On a static target, I would say I get about 340-360 DPS. How you get 350 when moving by thorns, move away from getting sucked in, getting sucked in when getting the honey ... How it is even possible so then sustain 350 DPS seems beyond me. Well, I guess when you have it 30-40% up out of 6 minutes that that is a HUGE DPS increase.
Regardless, I must say that I am pretty impressed. I will record a kill next week and if you want, you can have a look and perhaps give some advice. I am definitely prepared to become better.

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Originally Posted by blackermage

Took a while, had to find the date of my kill and edit out names, etc. etc,.
http://imgur.com/SV80XmK,uBfJHMw#0
First page is the clear, Second page shows that I didn't flare at the end.
Not sure how to show foes, we had two bard it was up 30-40% of the time I believe.

I had the weathered laevaetinn (sp?) at the time, along with weathered sold legs (don't ask, I'm retarded), along with pentamelded hat and chest, sold ring, HA feet.

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I noticed your damage taken is the highest in the group. Do you primarily let everyone break your tethers while you stand still? There's nothing wrong with that considering your comp, just curious if you primarily just pop Manaward and go about your business whenever you can.

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What is the tactic being used?

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We run to briars. Since we started learning it that way we didn't bother to change it. We also burn boss at the end instead of feeding the slug.
For this strategy, while you're running it's best if you have something to insta cast. Also, I make sure I run into the edge of the briar, so when Rafflessia is done using the suck I just sidestep a little bit and AM back to the party.

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You probably skipped the second bee as well.

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Yes, always one bee. IIRC, if you push hard after the first blight you'll be fine with even decent gear.

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What happens in my group is that usually we have to wait for the honey (second and bee) to spawn and that's when my dps plummets of course.

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Yeah if you have to hold DPS to not trigger leafstorm, RIP your dps.

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How you get 350 when moving by thorns, move away from getting sucked in, getting sucked in when getting the honey ... How it is even possible so then sustain 350 DPS seems beyond me.

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Thorns with a very mobile group let's you get away with not moving too much. At the very worse it just forces a swiftcast.
Honey is RNG, and I was lucky I didn't get targeted. Although if you're pushing 1 bee it's only 1/8(?*) chance.
Anytime a briar is spawned underneath, if you have swiftcast (and even better w/convert) it is actually a dps increase as you can flare two targets easily.

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Well, I guess when you have it 30-40% up out of 6 minutes that that is a HUGE DPS increase.

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It's a good chunk of damage, and I always tell my bards when my RS is up, since when stacked with voice it gives even more damage.


Edit: Actually I think it might be 1/4, as I don't recall it ever being on healers/tanks. Still, pretty good odds ^_^

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

I noticed your damage taken is the highest in the group. Do you primarily let everyone break your tethers while you stand still? There's nothing wrong with that considering your comp, just curious if you primarily just pop Manaward and go about your business whenever you can.

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Our summoner is actually really close, 250.24 + 90.76 on his Garuda. Our Bards are very undergeared (we basically brought in two alts for that week). But to answer your question, yes. I used to run as soon as I see chains no matter what. However, the briar method makes you wait for every even chain (to see who gets the mark), and I noticed that my bards will break the chain pretty quickly. On every odd chain I will start walking after I finish my cast, maybe one extra (earlier if I get a proc of course).

Well, I guess this is a case of having a lot of factors in your benefit. It's impressive DPS regardless. But let us be honest, BLM is pretty straight forward. That is why I am always sceptical whenever someone claims to have such high DPS because from my perspective, I can never get it. Whenever I get thorns, I need to run away (sometimes pretty far), indeed the plummeting of my DPS because of not burning through. We don't burn the boss in the end as well. Usually I DPS the boss a bit and then get ready to burn the Slug who has eaten the Slimes. All of it is pretty much fatal to me. Because I do believe that Black Mages suffer the most from not doing anything. We only have Flare to basically burst our DPS a bit and without convert it's so useless.
Nice tip on the briars though. I usually stand in the middle because we always thought you would get sucks in if you don't. Cheers, mate. Quick question. Would you prefer spell speed or det?

I totally agree they should add these to update blm, also same goes for Thundercloud aswell since it wouldnt really be overpowered since the it has very low percentage of it happening. If they were to make Firestarter/Thundercloud to stack to 3 they would have to increase the time limit to use it before you can't anymore, 30 seconds would be good time limit, enough time to get all 3 stacks it would balance out moving around by great deal along with surecast idea you have they could implement into the game.

It would also be good idea if they updated Apoctastasis, keep the cooldown the same but change the duration to 20 seconds like manaward and be able to use it on self along with changing the 30% resistance to just fire, ice and lightning to all elements, would be used alot more and be needed raids, some of you may think this would be overpowered but it wouldn't be, playing as blm since the game came out I have hardly used this skill at all along with surecast.

Haha thats a awesome idea Friske, for flare maybe be abit over powered, if they made it like fire 1 and fire 3, 40% firestarter, but instead call it flarestarter (with whatever % for getting it with instant cast with no mana) for casting/instant casting fire 3, there would be some pretty cool cycle going on there heck it would make the blm cycle abit longer. :P

Does anyone even have the slighest idea what they might be doing? Something leaked or ...

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Originally Posted by Halloween

I agree with you, vivi. I'd like to see proof rather than just claims. I know I have room to improve, but sustained 340dps blm on t6 (and even more on the t7+8) is highly doubtful and i'd like to be proven wrong.

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The night before the T6 I posted earlier, I went with other FC members to try to clear T8 for the week (since it was about to reset anyways).
http://imgur.com/s16XlJm

I was on tower tapping duty (every other set) and that was about it I think. Might have hit 1 mine at the end because our usual mine popper had allagan field.
Not my best work, but I had the other data loaded up anyways.


I wish I could give you a good T7 parse except I'm terrible at that fight.

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Originally Posted by blackermage

I wish I could give you a good T7 parse except I'm terrible at that fight.

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whatever your parse is, it's probably still much better than mine lol. i'm i96 but I can't reach 300+dps on 2nd coil fights

Well, after this I can conclude that a lot of our DPS is very dependend on the fight itself and the RNG that you are facing. This is of course for all DPS classes, but I believe we get punished the hardest for it. A lot of things in your T6 fight go in your favour. I do however want to stress that this takes nothing away from your merrit, Blackermage, it's very impressive.
More ontopic
Blizzard III - Thunder II and Fire III. When I use Blizzard III I cast thunder II after it and look closely how fast the tick of mana regeneration comes. Depending on the speed of it I sometimes cast a Blizzard I after thunder II to get to full mana and then Fire III. I don't see any problem in going Blizzard III - Thunder II - Bio - Fire III. Basically, when you cast Bio, you have your global cooldown and it should be enough to fully regen your mana again. Does anyone actually know something about the buff that is coming?

@ Halloween + Vivi
Thank you both for the kind words

I would love to see Firestarter stacks go up to 3. Much better alternative (when you have to move) than pray for a fs or tc proc otherwise swift cast

I keep hearing in game its going to be more dots, I just want them to refine what we already have, dont mind getting something new though.

Blms still 2nd to none on add stuff though. They seriously save a pt's rear when it comes to burst on demand from those flares and fire3. While yes almost everything is brute forcible, it doesn't take away what a blm contributes to a PT in coil, once someone stops parsing out of their rear.

I don't think black mages need more burst so firestarter stacking should not work as it currently does while gaining stacks.

If firestarter stacked it should leave a dot that's damage depends if it's 2 or 3 stacks. 1 stack working as it does now.

Surecast letting black mages cast one spell while moving is a thing that would help greatly.

Thunder should be more thundery. The dot part of thunder should be stronger and proc chance higher than it is at this moment. When used as thundercloud proc it should give elemental shield to party members close to target it is released on. This is because I feel we lack utility at the moment as well as damage and this feature on thunder would give blms something that helps the group they are in.

tldr: what I ask is dot-like damage when using firestarter procs which in unison with surecast giving blms one cast while moving and thunder working better as damage and group utility would help blms greatly. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Blms still 2nd to none on add stuff though. They seriously save a pt's rear when it comes to burst on demand from those flares and fire3. While yes almost everything is brute forcible, it doesn't take away what a blm contributes to a PT in coil, once someone stops parsing out of their rear.

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What in T6-9 do you really benefit from BLM's decent burst?

T6 - Patches aren't a major DPS check, any comp can destroy them and as long as you beat them before their second growth it doesn't matter. Slugs, you can do proper feeding or LB2.
T7 - Adds live long enough that BLM's burst is no longer burst, it's sustained, and it's worse than everyone else but BRD unless you get Foe's. Adds aren't and haven't been such a strict DPS check that you would bring a BLM purposefully for them.
T8 - Dreadnaughts are again not a DPS check like that, it's pretty easy to burn them without BLM, especially with the ever popular 5 DPS comp.
T9 - Golems are a sustained DPS check, particularly in favor of BRD/SMN. Wyvern gets LB'd, and again, they live long enough where other jobs do more.

BLM's burst is only so great if an enemy will only live a few GCDs, such as Conflags/Dreadknights in T5. Take away the AoE and immediate burst and you've just got an inferior sustained DPS class.

i'm trying to think of what we could use that'll fit our current playstyle, like adding a chance to burn/chill victims with a debuff of some sort, but we don't need anymore RNG bs.

Just revert us to when we could fast cast two fire 3's and not have to wait for ticks. Done.

If they did stacking (even 2 FS) would be amazing. However it's so strong that it would have to be nerfed. Can you imagine...

"hey mr. bard, i got lyke 3 fs procs plz battle voice foe reqs for me," and everything would die easy as hell...

I can imagine stacking of FS if they were to reduce the potency of fire/fire3 a little bit. Right now, we're already losing 16% of a f3 over 2.5s (it isn't too much tbh) but that issue would disappear if we do get that change.

potency should not go down. Don't say such things.

If we do get 2 stacks of firestarter, we'll probably just end up holding 1 for when we need a little extra burst, so it keeps us in that state of getting 2 stacks max and getting another wasted proc.

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Originally Posted by blackermage

The night before the T6 I posted earlier, I went with other FC members to try to clear T8 for the week (since it was about to reset anyways).
http://imgur.com/s16XlJm

I was on tower tapping duty (every other set) and that was about it I think. Might have hit 1 mine at the end because our usual mine popper had allagan field.
Not my best work, but I had the other data loaded up anyways.

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2 Bards. Tower Tapping should be making very little difference to your DPS as you should be moving into the zone when a proc is up to go to the tower and then aethering back to your party stack.