German Com rep response to "reservation system for dungeons".

As long as we can re-enter after getting kick out, it is all good to me. Auto-fail is no no.

Since everyone's favorite game is "read into Bayohne's comments", I took this part:

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

We look forward to your comments and discussion once you all have had a chance to try the raids out when patch 1.18 hits. :)

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to say "hey maybe at least look at the raids before you form your opinion of them".

If we can re-enter I don't mind. If we can't, why not make it so it bring you back at the beginning of the dungeon when you DC instead of completely kicking you out?

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

As long as we can re-enter after getting kick out, it is all good to me. Auto-fail is no no.

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Yup, re-enter will place you at the start of dungeon. I think that is acceptable by both devs, players ?

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Originally Posted by Synthesis

Yup, re-enter will place you at the start of dungeon. I think that is acceptable by both devs, players ?

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The dungeons look fairly massive, and appears to have multiple paths within. That to me would seem super annoying to try and find your members ><

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Originally Posted by SydeBeheln

The dungeons look fairly massive, and appears to have multiple paths within. That to me would seem super annoying to try and find your members ><

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It is a minor annoyance and you do not get DC everytime, i understand why is this being done although a comment from devs will probably clear this confusion out.

Again, as long as you can re-enter after DC, everything is ok imho.

The solution will be adding a 30sec /logout delay system where player hate gets to the top, so no one can "/logout escape".

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Originally Posted by AivasTlamunus

The solution will be adding a 30sec /logout delay system where player hate gets to the top, so no one can "/logout escape".

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That's not a bad idea. I feel SE isn't looking over all the possibilities here ><. Why should legitimate DC's be fired down.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

I have an update on a design-related change to the upcoming instanced raids: Previously we announced that a player who was disconnected during an instanced raid would be able to return to their party members' location upon reconnecting. However, a change has been made during the balance adjustment phase and disconnected players will now return outside of the dungeon when they log back in.

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very bad news .... know we play raid with a new fear

can we know why? server problem again?!

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Originally Posted by Evangelus

very bad news .... know we play raid with a new fear

can we know why? server problem again?!

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No, because we are dealing with people abusing the system, and dc'ing right before full party wipes, then logging back in to raise the party so they won't have to lose their progress.

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Originally Posted by SydeBeheln

No, because we are dealing with people abusing the system, and dc'ing right before full party wipes, then logging back in to raise the party so they won't have to lose their progress.

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you sure it's the raison? Oo
cheater raison !

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Originally Posted by Evangelus

you sure it's the raison? Oo
cheater raison !

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No official statement was made. However, it's the only real conclusion players have come to. And if what players have assumed ends up not being the reason, then we stumbled across a good reason for the alteration in the first place. It could be server issues, but I figure they would say something about that if it had been.

1 step forward 2 steps back. We should not be punished if SE's client crashes like it still does. They really need to think twice about this decision.

gotta love once again legit players being punished for fear of what could happen. more things being done based on fear equals less fun for the people actually trying to enjoy things.

They could make checkpoints here and there in the dungeons (reacheable from the entrance), so we can gather with the party easily.

So.. why not have it save your progress then? In WoW on heroic dungeons/raids once a group kills a boss it saves everyone until the lockout refreshes.

I am going to die laughing if this is leve d/c fail 2.0

If we have to re-enter then PLEASE put CONFLUXES (check points, warp spots etc!) all over the dungeon.

i hope my healer and tank have good connexion !

ok so in future raids there are no traps/gadget that require all 4 or 8 players I assume. If it does then this thing will ruin for all if one person gets disconnected...

in other mmorpg, it's the same?

No ones mentioned how a dc could have dire ramifications on parties with the time limit esp if you're deep within. Gotta wait for the persons character to log off.... so 5-20 mins?! or so AND for the pt member to come back to the group depending how far you're currently in, esp if it's a boss and/or for loot they may want/need xD At LEAST fix the insane time it takes to remove the character from the server if you're going to do this "unbalanced adjustment"... know tons of people who legitimately dc or crash, the game isn't too stable and never has been for a mmo or otherwise. What happened to fixing core issues before releasing content???

Edit: Oh and force Dc'in to save your pt won't always work as I stated still takes time to kick your character, You can still be killed while you "dc". Not to mention parties have 8 members, more than enough chance you'll get 1 dc per run/every couple runs!!! (Yes that's how unstable the game is lol) Plus when you dc you get kicked from party so are you at least able to re-invite people outside the dungeon so they can enter? or does it remember that you were in the current one so you can enter and pt can reinvite? Knowing SE, it's no to both ... Which means you'll have to waste some of your time(or alot) to go fetch teammates o.O

Very bad idea in my opinion. As stated before, the game is too unstable to solve the issue this way. Did anyone think of any other penalty before? Maybe weakness or something?

Besides that I can't imagine it would get common that people use such a tactic because of the time limit.

And if they would, there would still be time to implement a penalty for it (and I hope that wouldn't be mass perma-bans).

No clue what's up with the dev team and SE. The last thing I would do now is to spread even more frustration under the few players that are left...

I really don't understand this idiotic design choice. The developers honestly think its a good idea, with how crappy their servers are, that if someone dcs its a good idea to screw the entire team over thats in the dungeon? They have already stated the dungeons are going to be difficult and you will need all 8 people working together to complete it, so essentially if someone dcs it will probably be near impossible to complete it.

The funny things is, if they are doing this to counter force dcing, force dcing doesnt work half the time nayways, if you dc while youre in a fight you are pretty much guaranteed to come back dead, even if nothing has hit you. They are going way too far out of hand trying to combat exploits because it is completely ruining the gameplay experience.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

I have an update on a design-related change to the upcoming instanced raids: Previously we announced that a player who was disconnected during an instanced raid would be able to return to their party members' location upon reconnecting. However, a change has been made during the balance adjustment phase and disconnected players will now return outside of the dungeon when they log back in.

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Are you able to clarify whether there will be a method for that d/c'd player to return to the instance one way or another?

That's a pretty major buzzkill if not... there are a couple of really good people in my LS who, for one reason or another, have intermittently unstable connections. It would be incredibly lame if they couldn't in good conscience participate in the game's only noteworthy content due to the risk of leaving 3 or 7 of their friends high and dry. At least if they d/c'd while doing leves, they could re-join after reconnecting (even if they lost any link bonuses).

I'm not a professional game designer and I don't claim to be, but I cannot wrap my mind around what sort of balance adjustments would cause the development team to design a system whereby players are outright punished for factors totally outside their own control.

With this, I'm SO glad I've solved my Blue Screen problem =)

People are actually defending that decision? Wow. Forget about the menacing headrip ogre, you should really be worrying about directx errors.

This is incredibly lame news.

If SE were thinking about punishing players for 'cheating' i.e. logging out and in, just give that player a 3minute weakness upon re-entering.

This has completely killed my good-feel vibe for dungeons.

Seems like a coding issue to me and this is the easy option instead of fixing it.

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Originally Posted by Nixius

This is incredibly lame news.

If SE were thinking about punishing players for 'cheating' i.e. logging out and in, just give that player a 3minute weakness upon re-entering.

This has completely killed my good-feel vibe for dungeons.

Seems like a coding issue to me and this is the easy option instead of fixing it.

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That's what I don't get either. If you find an exploit that's so bad that you actually need to eject people from the dungeon due to something that's usually out of their control then why even bother releasing it?

I usually one for waiting for information on a subject before i come to a conclusion.. But seriously?
From the look of the teaser video there is going to be a lot of teleporting around and maze like features in these dungeons. Even if we can re-enter it will be a massive pain in the ### and a huge time sink. Unless they make re-entering tele you straight to your party this is going to be horrible for a lot of people.

If this is due to server problem again..........
SE Dev Team looking at the server machines.... Pretty sure they want to toss, and kick, and blow the thing up...

WTF IS WRONG WITH THIS SERVER!!! (ノ-o-)ノ⌒┳ ┫┻┣ ←Server

↑↑↓↓←→←→ＢＡ...┗( -o-)┛ Power Up!! Graahhhhh

Hadouken ( ；｀ヘ´)=( ---==<<((O)>>

This tells me that people who get kicked are reconnecting on the outside of the instance but can "enter" it since your group is still in it.

I think this change only meant that people won't reconnect to their initial spot, not that they get kicked and they are screwed.

PS: Just think of the floating eye patrol thing...would you rather be kicked and log in and see you dead cause of a eye that killed you on its patrol? That would prolly cause more rage than just walking back into the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

This tells me that people who get kicked are reconnecting on the outside of the instance but can "enter" it since your group is still in it.

I think this change only meant that people won't reconnect to their initial spot, not that they get kicked and they are screwed.

PS: Just think of the floating eye patrol thing...would you rather be kicked and log in and see you dead cause of a eye that killed you on its patrol? That would prolly cause more rage than just walking back into the dungeon.

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If that is the case then I dont see people having issues with it, most games already do this.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

This tells me that people who get kicked are reconnecting on the outside of the instance but can "enter" it since your group is still in it.

I think this change only meant that people won't reconnect to their initial spot, not that they get kicked and they are screwed.

PS: Just think of the floating eye patrol thing...would you rather be kicked and log in and see you dead cause of a eye that killed you on its patrol? That would prolly cause more rage than just walking back into the dungeon.

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JP Side is also talking about this and if some did mention like yours where it just means you get kicked out of the instance and can come back in from beginning, if that's the case then I am OK with this also.

Time for some clarification it would seem =D

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

PS: Just think of the floating eye patrol thing...would you rather be kicked and log in and see you dead cause of a eye that killed you on its patrol? That would prolly cause more rage than just walking back into the dungeon.

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Honestly? I'd rather be dead in the instance. Because there's at least the chance the the rest of the party may be fine and could come and raise me. Having them come back what little distance to come and raise me would take less time than it would being back at the beginning and running back through that massive maze would.

And if the party is all dead? Then I'd have my party to run back with and not potentially get accidentally killed by a trash mob we didn't clear and have to start the process over.

And several people mentioned a force D/C won't work, since you character hangs around so long in game before dropping out. And if people try logging out? Make it so you can't log out in combat - problem solved.

Dumping the person out of the instance if they DC just sounds like a terrible idea. If the place was smaller or there was no time limit - than sure. But this place looks like it's massive and you only have an hour to do it. The DC'd person doesn't need to pop in next to the party, but it'd still save time if they at least popped back in the instance where they were standing when they DC'd.

im not sure if this is SEs mindset or not but i was playing Rift last night and did my first dungeon and died once within it. this is the result of what happens when you die in their dungeons.

when you die you "resurrect" outside of the instance (i resurrected pretty far from it actually lol) and i had to walk back to the entrance of the instance. once back inside the instance i had to travel to my parties location. this was difficult however because the mobs previously fought were re spawned so they had to come back for me.
the healer was able to resurrect me inside the instance as well minusing the necessity to walk back to the instance/party.
this is also identically true for WoWs instance dungeons (Rift is basically a big rip off of WoW)

id only imagine that since were getting a jump much like in any standard MMO (just confirmed to be standard MMO jumping by Yoshi himself) this might and should be along similar lines to my experience with dying in Rift and WoWs instances.

also, notice how they wiped in that video yet it cut to them continuing on? i know it doesnt confirm a thing but i took the video as a cohesive story-- the whole run was a single dungeon run for that party which means after wiping they were able to continue. to me this suggests SE understands the need to continue your efforts until the party is finished or the timer is up, not due to DCing, dying (like alot of early FFXI events), or unexpected quitters.

Vinny, I haven't played Rift. Are the Rift dungeons timed? From the sound of it, returning to the party from the outside takes a long time in Rift. So I'm wondering if finishing the dungeon in a certain time limit was also a concern in Rift, like it will be in FFXIV?

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

also, notice how they wiped in that video yet it cut to them continuing on? i know it doesnt confirm a thing but i took the video as a cohesive story-- the whole run was a single dungeon run for that party which means after wiping they were able to continue. to me this suggests SE understands the need to continue your efforts until the party is finished or the timer is up, not due to DCing, dying (like alot of early FFXI events), or unexpected quitters.

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I could be remembering wrong, but I thought everyone wiped except a Conjurer? (I may need to go back and watch again.)

But yes, I agree with you. I really hope that a party wipe doesn't mean you've failed, and you can get back in as long as your 60 minutes isn't up.

Correct the only one who was able to get out of range of the aoe of death was the conjurer. Thing that really sticks out in my mind about the whole chain of events in the video is that the skeleton they were fighting did not run after him once the rest of the party was ko'ed.

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Originally Posted by Morticous

I still dont understand the need to wait at all, why cant we all go in at the same time, in our own instance?

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if they really make them like dynamis, this will be the biggest fail ever. I think more people will quit if they, after that long wait time, can't play the dungeons for weeks perhaps because they were unlucky on the time. I hope it's just a communication issue again... if not the only thing i can think of is: SE wants ffxiv to fail but wants us to believe they put a lot of effort in fixing it so we are not that mad after they shut it down....

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if not the only thing i can think of is: SE wants ffxiv to fail but wants us to believe they put a lot of effort in fixing it so we are not that mad after they shut it down....

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... So hard to imagine why you aren't taken seriously.