Personally, I'd rather you scrap the Armoury System then Lock 1 Job to 1 Weapon.

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Originally Posted by Physic

and yet, with only 7 classes, which of what we have would want to/should be a pure tank? ehhhhhh one specialization kind of messes up a lot of things.

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Depends on the gear you wear. WoW finally got it right after way too long with their Half-ass paladin tank and brought them up to full-tank by being spec'd protection, Making Paladin, Druid, Warrior, and Death Knight all pretty equal tanks. Need a tank, pick one of 4 different choices. Variety is always good. Really right now, before jobs, they dont really have gear, stats on gear, or specializations beyond setting the right skills from other classes that screams tank. Plate armor.... meh dont need it.

im just saying, with a 1-1 plan, what job out of the measly 7 we have should specialize (basically becoming for all high level content) a tank. Archer and lnc are out but should pug and war really be pure tank only classes?

honestly the best bet would be thaum, as a magical skill style tank, it wouldnt kill its playstyle too much, but thats highly unlikely because they only have two mages, and most likely will want to force a classic FF job down their throats since that is part of the selling point of jobs.

In all honesty for the 1 to 1 job system to make sense, they need a lot more classes.

It has pretty much been this way since the beginning. I don't know why you are so surprised now.

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Originally Posted by Moth

It has pretty much been this way since the beginning. I don't know why you are so surprised now.

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what do you mean?

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Originally Posted by Physic

im just saying, with a 1-1 plan, what job out of the measly 7 we have should specialize (basically becoming for all high level content) a tank. Archer and lnc are out but should pug and war really be pure tank only classes?

honestly the best bet would be thaum, as a magical skill style tank, it wouldnt kill its playstyle too much, but thats highly unlikely because they only have two mages, and most likely will want to force a classic FF job down their throats since that is part of the selling point of jobs.

In all honesty for the 1 to 1 job system to make sense, they need a lot more classes.

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We can only hope they see the error of making it 1 to 1.

And..... there had damn well better be dark knight somewhere in the choices, and it had better be able to tank :).

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Every system I suggested allowed for cross classing to what ever job system.

You want to be a thief?

Equip what ever weapon you want, equip steal, blindside, and some other similar abilities and you get the title of thief and attacking from behind has a huge bonus to damage.

I never suggested that a specific job ever be locked to only using one weapon class.

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Well I'm so sorry you did not get exactly what you want princess. Neither did I in this mater. The whole reason behind this was to be able to look at a identifier and know every thing you needed to know about that character, and that's what were getting Simple as that.

Now Please continue on with what your doing. It is quite amusing.

I still don't necessarily see it as a problem that one weapon is for one class. It's a pretty common tactic in most MMOs to have one particular weapon be optimal. Technically, the option to equip other weapons was there, but in many cases, the stats and mechanics of said weapon wouldn't make it worth taking unless you were naked or something.

Concerning the lack of reality stemming from the armory system, you can't go to your closet, talk to a flying cupie doll and magically become a sniper, either. A healthy balance point between these two systems would be allowing you to call on moogles while on the go rather than needing to run back to town. There, you have your job system, and you have the general flexibility/convenience of the armory system.

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Originally Posted by Ashthra

I still don't necessarily see it as a problem that one weapon is for one class. It's a pretty common tactic in most MMOs to have one particular weapon be optimal. Technically, the option to equip other weapons was there, but in many cases, the stats and mechanics of said weapon wouldn't make it worth taking unless you were naked or something.

Concerning the lack of reality stemming from the armory system, you can't go to your closet, talk to a flying cupie doll and magically become a sniper, either. A healthy balance point between these two systems would be allowing you to call on moogles while on the go rather than needing to run back to town. There, you have your job system, and you have the general flexibility/convenience of the armory system.

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Name another MMO that has any class or job locked to one weapon.... It is a stupid idea, and this is the only MMO that does it. I'm not for copying from other MMO's, but going from being able to use a variety of weapons on one class/job to being stuck with one type is a 'Downgrade'. we don't want 'Downgrades', we want 'Upgrades'.

SUGGESTION OMG!-
It would also be good to have a different way of changing your class than equipping a different weapon. Maybe not moogles, but someone somewhere in some thread out there mentioned an amulet that changed your class. Not something im for, because it would use more inv space, but we can simplify it by making it a drop-tab in the inventory or status window to change your class. This way you can still change your class anywhere but more weapons could be equipped on other classes. Like Gladiators being able to use Axes and Lances etc. Also would help for adding more weapon types that what currently exist..

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Originally Posted by Reika

Name another MMO that has any class or job locked to one weapon.... It is a stupid idea, and this is the only MMO that does it. I'm not for copying from other MMO's, but going from being able to use a variety of weapons on one class/job to being stuck with one type is a 'Downgrade'. we don't want 'Downgrades', we want 'Upgrades'.

SUGGESTION OMG!-
It would also be good to have a different way of changing your class than equipping a different weapon. Maybe not moogles, but someone somewhere in some thread out there mentioned an amulet that changed your class. Not something im for, because it would use more inv space, but we can simplify it by making it a drop-tab in the inventory or status window to change your class. This way you can still change your class anywhere but more weapons could be equipped on other classes. Like Gladiators being able to use Axes and Lances etc. Also would help for adding more weapon types that what currently exist..

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I have to disagree with this, while i think having jobs as being able to work with multiple weapon classes is good, i dont think that classes should be seperated. The class should have been your overall playstyle, and the jobs been tied to your role.

Ie theif is a certain role, with some skills, but your weapon decides your playstyle, ie single target fast moving chain attacks, versus slow moving powerful aoe.

jobs really shoulnt be completely class based, its a bad answer to the problem

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Originally Posted by Physic

I have to disagree with this, while i think having jobs as being able to work with multiple weapon classes is good, i dont think that classes should be seperated. The class should have been your overall playstyle, and the jobs been tied to your role.

Ie theif is a certain role, with some skills, but your weapon decides your playstyle, ie single target fast moving chain attacks, versus slow moving powerful aoe.

jobs really shoulnt be completely class based, its a bad answer to the problem

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It really is. They should have used the FFXI and past FF Job systems are more of a jumping point then using Ragnarok as one.

You like being a Thief. That means you like dealing damage from the monsters backside, stealing its items and gil, stripping it of its bonus buffs and possibly giving them to yourself or team mates.

You play Thief with an Axe and your attacks are slower, less accurate but deal much more damage. (War/Thief in FFXI)

You play Thief with a Dagger and your attacks are fast, accurate, but deal less damage per hit. (Thief/War in FFXI)

End of the day DPS is the same its just how you prefer to perform the role.

Once you unlock and Make the Job your role, make the weapon how you perform said Job and make it act a bit like Subjobs in XI.

That is how I suggested it long ago.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

It really is. They should have used the FFXI and past FF Job systems are more of a jumping point then using Ragnarok as one.

You like being a Thief. That means you like dealing damage from the monsters backside, stealing its items and gil, stripping it of its bonus buffs and possibly giving them to yourself or team mates.

You play Thief with an Axe and your attacks are slower, less accurate but deal much more damage. (War/Thief in FFXI)

You play Thief with a Dagger and your attacks are fast, accurate, but deal less damage per hit. (Thief/War in FFXI)

End of the day DPS is the same its just how you prefer to perform the role.

Once you unlock and Make the Job your role, make the weapon how you perform said Job and make it act a bit like Subjobs in XI.

That is how I suggested it long ago.

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yea, in the case of marauder, thf would be a decoy multiple mob debuffer, a dagger thf would be more of a single target from behind DD debuffer with more oppurtunities to debilitate a single mob. Would have been good design. too bad they went with 1 to 1

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Originally Posted by Reika

there had damn well better be dark knight somewhere in the choices, and it had better be able to tank

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I agree. Dark Knight should have the option to tank this time around.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I agree. Dark Knight should have the option to tank this time around.

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Oho! Dark Knights could tank in XI too. I did it.

The problem with the current setup is that everything eventually blends into monotony. I personally think they should've reduced the classes into 3 essential archetypes (melee, caster, range), and then expanded on each with additional subclasses (sort've what they have now, but with the possibility for more defined function).

Simply giving players most abilities in the game essentially results in content being dumbed down due to everyone having too much power. Granted, if there were some real systems of customization/specialization in the game now, this issue could be avoided. (guildmarks has yet to be fully used to its potential in this regard)

I think Sentinel should unlock Paladin.. :) makes more sense than Gladiator unlocking it..

Also........I cant wait to be a musketeer, when they finally release it. Heres the bad thing about the 1 to 1 restrictions , My favorite weapon is the gun, so i choose to be a musketeer.....awesome right? yes .. ok. nowww the job thats locked to it is most likely Corsair.... awesome right? NO.. i hate Corsiar i dont wanna be a Corsair.. This would possibly force me to stay as my musketeer and miss out on the goodies other classes get because their job/class options lined up for them, be gimp for party situations, or result in me playing as a different Job/class completely which will result in me(or you) not being able to use your favorite weapon...

From the begining of XIV SE encouraged us to play with our favorite weapon, the 1 to 1 decision would be a huge smack in the face.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Oho! Dark Knights could tank in XI too. I did it.

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Dread Spikes FTW ^^

But yes I really hole Jobs are not limited to the weapon that unlocks them. Using DRK as an example I want to be able to use a Scythe and a G.Sword at the very least and not just be tied to one. As a PLD i want a sword and shield for tanking and then switch to a G.Sword if my tanking is no longer required to give my PLD more DPS. SE has a great chance here to do something great with the system and I would hate for them to blow this chance by shackling us to only one weapon type per job.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Dread Spikes FTW ^^

But yes I really hole Jobs are not limited to the weapon that unlocks them. Using DRK as an example I want to be able to use a Scythe and a G.Sword at the very least and not just be tied to one. As a PLD i want a sword and shield for tanking and then switch to a G.Sword if my tanking is no longer required to give my PLD more DPS. SE has a great chance here to do something great with the system and I would hate for them to blow this chance by shackling us to only one weapon type per job.

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agreed. like if you have 2 Paladins in a pt, one could main tank , while the other switches to a G.Sword for more damage,, :)

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Dread Spikes FTW ^^

But yes I really hole Jobs are not limited to the weapon that unlocks them. Using DRK as an example I want to be able to use a Scythe and a G.Sword at the very least and not just be tied to one. As a PLD i want a sword and shield for tanking and then switch to a G.Sword if my tanking is no longer required to give my PLD more DPS. SE has a great chance here to do something great with the system and I would hate for them to blow this chance by shackling us to only one weapon type per job.

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Sword and shield for DRK too!!!

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Originally Posted by Reika

Sword and shield for DRK too!!!

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Yes exactly they could be a drain tank with a sword and shield as opposed to the PLD style of tanking. SE have a huge amount of potential and elements to work with for this system, they just need to make sure they use it and blow us all away.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Oho! Dark Knights could tank in XI too. I did it.

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Drawing aggro from hitting things is not the same as tanking. Well, intentional tanking, anyways. =P

And I say that as a former DRK main. I've kissed dirt more times than I can count because even after giving the tank a chance to voke, something would happen that would cause the mob to turn to me, causing me to scream "No! Don't hit the taru!" and next thing I knew I was dead.

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Using DRK as an example I want to be able to use a Scythe and a G.Sword at the very least and not just be tied to one. As a PLD i want a sword and shield for tanking and then switch to a G.Sword if my tanking is no longer required to give my PLD more DPS. SE has a great chance here to do something great with the system and I would hate for them to blow this chance by shackling us to only one weapon type per job.

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I wholeheartedly agree.

The system right now is a bit limiting, and with the changes that are coming with the removal of physical levels, renaming and making each job more individual, I wonder if the engine can permit them to change the core of the system?

I feel as the jobs should be able to wield many types of weapons. The armory system in the beginning sounded interesting, but now we can see it's limit. If they do change the gear to have level restriction, might as well change how the weapons work and allow us to change our jobs another way.

Xi's drk class was very FF but at the same time it was based on EQ's drk class forget the name of it, it was combination of some dark mage class and the war class. And the drk in EQ was viable tank. I never played DRK but i assume with the correct gear (gear rules all in xi) and correct macros you could tank some stuff.

The talk of new jobs is a bit confusing, i will wait see what happens.
Im all for the white mage blm mage and traditional names.

I know the team has changed and as much as i support the traditional "jobs" they have forgotten something they said in an interview about why classes are called classes and not jobs , this might seem a small thing but at time i thought it was good explaination of why it was class and not jobs.

I guess just need wait till changes and hope it works out for the best.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

If 1 Weapon = 1 Job

how they gonna do with DoM?

Conjurer = White Mage (but they have elemental offensive spells???)

Thaumaturge = Black Mage (but all of black magics are conjurer's???)

(New type of Staff?) = Summoner??

what about other Mage type???? Red Mage? Blue Mage? which weapon they're going to lock on them?

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Please search for more info before making a panic. They said, they are going to fix/relocate/change some skills.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

This system is the Ragnarok Job System. Its boring and lame and NOT Final Fantasy. :/

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Am I right that you haven't played Ragnarok?
In Ragnarok you can't switch your class or change your chosen build (class spezialisation). Only way to use skills from another classes are with cards.

This class system wouldn't be so bad if they limited how cross class eventually we could be. I hope jobs do this, they said "you can cross class certain abilities" meaning abilities which fit into the role you're playing even if they're from another class, that's just my take on this.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Am I right that you haven't played Ragnarok?
In Ragnarok you can't switch your class or change your chosen build (class spezialisation). Only way to use skills from another classes are with cards.

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I have played Ragnarok, I know you can't change your chosen build afterwards. But the progression is still the same.

"I'm a Archer. I can use bows. When I get strong enough I can become a Hunter which has more skills only it can use." Is pretty much the entire explanation you need of the Ragnarok System and its how they've presented this Job System. The notice that we shouldn't consider them advanced is completely unfounded as thats all they are, especially if you can't use the Jobs with more then the class it unlocked. Its just an Advanced version of the Class that unlocked it at that point, it shouldn't even be called a Job System.

They are not advanced jobs, but specialized jobs. To use the Ragnarok terms it would be like you have a normal 0815 Priest and you can now switch this 0815 Priest into a ME Priest (a Priest specialized for Magnus Exorcismus) and back.

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Originally Posted by Felis

They are not advanced jobs, but specialized jobs. To use the Ragnarok terms it would be like you have a normal 0815 Priest and you can now switch this 0815 Priest into a ME Priest (a Priest specialized for Magnus Exorcismus) and back.

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This is not the case though. They already said. Jobs give you skills no other classes do. IE It gives you skills only it can use, Ie, Its an Advanced class. Its not even an advanced "Job" its just using it as a name. The huge majority of FF games with the Job System in place had some sort of cross class system in place where once you learned a skill you could use it on any job.

Lol can't do that here. Nor do you have your choice of weapons which again, in past FF's a huge majority of Jobs have atleast the choice of 2-3 weapon classes.

Warrior/Fighter - Axes, Swords and shields, great swords, etc.
Paladin- Swords, axes, shields and swords, holy swords, lances, etc.
Dragoon - Lances, Spears, Polearms, Ancors, axes, epees, and fencing swords.

I can go on and on.

This system as described is a Bastardization of the Job System, It shouldn't even keep the name.

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Originally Posted by Felis

They are not advanced jobs, but specialized jobs. To use the Ragnarok terms it would be like you have a normal 0815 Priest and you can now switch this 0815 Priest into a ME Priest (a Priest specialized for Magnus Exorcismus) and back.

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thing is, the ro system is actually better than the one they seem to be promoting, ro eventually got two specilizations per basic class, and started out with a job tree system, you could actually make a variety of different priests builds different monk builds.
this system seems like it will essentially limit the job choices to almost nothing, because the assumption is the boost you will have in a certain role will outshine not having a role to the point of very rarely serving any purpose.
So what you will seem to end up having is 1 role per class. and game only has 7 classes

Not reading the entire thread but....

Who's to say the new jobs won't have access to new weapons as well specific to them? I mean they're going to have specific gear and abilities as well, why not a weapon?

I know you wanted to use every weapon on every class but that's a nightmare to balance. With specific weapons per class/job they have something to focus on.

I'd like to see a small variety of weapon choices for jobs as well but not everything on everything. As it stands your entire argument is speculation for now.

The speculation isn't without merit though. The current armoury system means that every weapon is a certain class as it is not just a weapon it is also a weapon specialisation that the class is tied too. Now if they were to start adding new weapon types that were not tied to a class then that would go against the very foundation of the armoury system. Personally I would prefer if they did separate weapon from class but it would mean changing the names of the classes in the JP version as you couldn't be a "sword user" and not use a sword.

The whole class system has caused a lot of it's confusion through the names given to the NA and EUR versions as they are not exactly called by there weapon type and this is where the confusion comes from when trying to understand and explain the system.

True but the current classes do have more than one weapon. Glad: Sword/dagger. Con: Wand/cane. Thaum: Scepter/Staff. Musketeer even looks like it'll have pistol and rifle.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

True but the current classes do have more than one weapon. Glad: Sword/dagger. Con: Wand/cane. Thaum: Scepter/Staff. Musketeer even looks like it'll have pistol and rifle.

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Yes that is true but all those weapons are very similar, what about something like a DRK using a G.Sword and a Scythe or a SAM using a G.Katana or Polearm?

I guess the main thing is why are they going to all this trouble to shoehorn the Job system into the Class system when in the long run it would be easier to just remove the Class system as it currently stands. The Class system was designed with a purpose of letting us create our own unique Job's and the Classes would provide us with the Building Blocks to achieve that. It seemed a good idea on paper but it didn't really work out so good, now SE are further limiting Cross Classing, removing Physical Level and then adding a Job system on top of it to even further distance themselves from the original vision and I can't help but ask, why bother?

Surely in the long run it would just be easier to make the Classes actual Job's and remove their ties to a certain weapon. What I mean is just make GLA a PLD, make ARC a RNG, make PUG a MNK and so on. Let the Job learn it's own skills, traits and abilities and then let the weapons be used for learning weapon skills specific for that weapon only. Then they just add a "can be equipped" by to each weapon individually. So Sword A can be equipped by PLD, WAR, DRK, RDM, THF but Sword B can be equipped by PLD and RDM only.

Yes the Lore would not make sense in it's current form but come on, we have only had 3 or 4 Class missions for each class isn't it? They could lower the level required on them and then you start your proper Journey to becoming a PLD after through additional quests.

I guess we will have to wait and see what happens but it just seems like they are over complicating things and I fear we will end up with a half assed system that is limited by the very system it has been built upon.

If you want to be litteral about it. Daggers are swords. They are just short.

And then the "Weapon" for the mages is their AOE damage type, Cone vs Circle with the wands and stuff being focuses for such magic,

Though once AOE goes bye bye so does that assumption.

SE really is just breaking lots of what I enjoy about this game in the last month.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

If you want to be litteral about it. Daggers are swords. They are just short.

And then the "Weapon" for the mages is their AOE damage type, Cone vs Circle with the wands and stuff being focuses for such magic,

Though once AOE goes bye bye so does that assumption.

SE really is just breaking lots of what I enjoy about this game in the last month.

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Wait until you see the end result as an amalgamation of all of the battle, class/job, ability, formula, armoury system, materia updates

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Wait until you see the end result as an amalgamation of all of the battle, class/job, ability, formula, armoury system, materia updates

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Wont be done with all of those till the end of august

I totally agree with OP.

And people saying that gla has got dagger/sword and CON,THM have got 2 weapon types, are you serious? is that enough for you?

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Originally Posted by Icopico

I totally agree with OP.

And people saying that gla has got dagger/sword and CON,THM have got 2 weapon types, are you serious? is that enough for you?

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Yeah Seriously, White Mages not having access to Blunt Clubs and Hammers when they get added with Enforcer is just wrong.

http://media.nj.com/hobokennow_impac...cb21_large.jpg

I want my Hammers.

Does anyone actually like the 1 'class' : 1 weapon system?

Just add a menu button that lets you change your 'class' and proceed to equip any viable weapon/tool for that class.

All the freedom of being able to change classes in the field, and freedom to choose equipment.