I'm sad to see this game going the same route as SWTOR.

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Originally Posted by zdub303

Actually MMOs didn't start off as end-game gear grinds, they started off as day 1 ridiculous exp grinds. In many ways though, those day 1 exp grinds had so much more of a journey/experience than the endgame raiding gear treadmill that MMOs have become today...

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Heck yeah they were. I've recently realized that what FFXIV calls endgame was what FFXI called day 1 progression. Everything was a challenge to get. Just simply gearing up every few levels to go grind exp out was challenging and required fair amounts of gil farming. Getting the gil was a grind which makes gearing up a grind which allowed you the opportunity to go to an exp camp and exp grind. Everything was a grind. These days that type of challenge doesn't appear until you cap out.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Heck yeah they were. I've recently realized that what FFXIV calls endgame was what FFXI called day 1 progression. Everything was a challenge to get. Just simply gearing up every few levels to go grind exp out was challenging and required fair amounts of gil farming. Getting the gil was a grind which makes gearing up a grind which allowed you the opportunity to go to an exp camp and exp grind. Everything was a grind. These days that type of challenge doesn't appear until you cap out.

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I played those games and enjoyed them but it wasn't a challenge. It was a time sink. Time required does not mean challenge. The genre has moved away from the leveling grind and my problem with it isn't that "leveling up is boring." The big issue is when you have friends that played at different speeds, time, and you end up on different areas of the leveling spectrum. How mmorpg's function now means it's very easy for people I know who play far less than me (or far more) can all catch up and play together. Which in the end is what an mmo is about. Playing/working together. We can log on whenever we want and progress at our own pace without feeling like moving ahead/falling behind.

This is partly why the current trend of how mmorpgs operate is so popular and why it converted me who grew up with EQ and FF11. I probably won't play heavy gear grinds again. By the way what most people call Korean grinders are the typical korean mmo. The typical korean mmo doesn't focus too heavily on end game but instead on massive gear grinds to even hit max level.

Furthermore the first rendition of mmorpgs didn't have a major story. Take Everquest for instance. Everquest didn't have a massive storyline it was only in the background. Also Everquest had raiding/end game gear progression as well. So did FF11. Both games just had a far steeper leveling curve in order to get there.

Again with the condescending thread titles.

"I'm so deeply moved to see your game going down the drain."

Guess I am one of the lucky ones. Since having 2 toddlers take up alot of my time, I have very little time to play. If I had more time to play, I would probably be further than lvl 27 on my highest battle class. So, by the time I actually do reach endgame, it seems Ill have plenty to keep me busy. Kinda feel like people who reached 50 as fast as possible kinda beta tested endgame for me ^_^ Thanks guys.

At the same time, it doesn't make much sense to not add higher level dungeons and gear in with the dungeons and such designed to fix some flaws in endgame.