Order of the Blue Garter Twintania Down (No Exploits)

So, wait, the "finely tuned" portion of the fight is running in a little spiral and avoiding her plumes? Square, you are so silly.

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Originally Posted by Penguin

Verily Vale - American
Sniper Rifle - Canadian
Junpei Gunso - British
Arin Arae - German
Lilaea Syvara - Australian
Sirius Taco - American
Carraway Author - American
Tyrith Peng - British

Latency is always going to be a small problem but not enough to make a big enough difference.

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This makes me...supremely happy to hear. Thank you very much for your transparency. Best of luck in the future.

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Originally Posted by carraway

I posted this elsewhere, but I figure I might as well drop it here too:

I don't think the twister mechanic itself is "tuned" in an interesting way, but the interaction with the dreadknights is decent, and I like the tuning in the last phase a lot.

If you want to count, twister dodge rate for the kill was:
Carraway: 1/1
Arin: 2/2
Verily: 2/4
Sniper: 3/3
Junpei: 3/3
Sirius: 3/4
Peng: 2/2
Lilaea: 1/1

Each individual in our kill group has, at one time or another, achieved 80-90% dodge rate over a night's worth of attempts (~4-6 hours), and sometimes over several days' or an entire week's worth of attempts.

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Oh wow, doing my work for me! Gotta say, thanks a bunch! Your consistency with dodging them is also good to hear. Hopefully it will aid against those who think Twisters (and the mechanics before it) are bugged.

Whilst I'm curious to ask more questions, especially with regards to post-Twisters. I would probably be unsporting for me to ask you to reveal those mechanics in detail. Plus it's more fun to work them out anyway! ^^

We will eventually do a framework explanation of how and why we tackle the fight the way we do, but we'll wait until later for that.

Do you feel that at current gear levels there is enough leeway to bring different party comps, or do you think that you have to bring a certain ideal set of jobs? Could you down it with a DRG instead of a MNK or a SMN instead of a BLM, for example, or just one BRD rather than two.

Also, congratulations! ^^

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Originally Posted by LupusLazuli

Do you feel that at current gear levels there is enough leeway to bring different party comps, or do you think that you have to bring a certain ideal set of jobs? Could you down it with a DRG instead of a MNK or a SMN instead of a BLM, for example, or just one BRD rather than two.

Also, congratulations! ^^

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We do think there's a lot of leeway. A DRG would offer Disembowel debuff to the party, which is roughly a ~7-8% increase in DPS to BRDs I believe. SMN should also work. We liked having two BRDs for this fight despite using melee-heavy strategies for turns 1 and 2, but I definitely think you could get away with just one if you wanted to. Ballad is pretty important during specific parts of the fight in my opinion, but as your group's ilvl increases, you may not need it.

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Originally Posted by carraway

The video will only be of the fight, plus probably some nerdscreams.

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Loved the screams and the buttsecks at the end! Thanks for sharing the vid.

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Originally Posted by carraway

We will eventually do a framework explanation of how and why we tackle the fight the way we do, but we'll wait until later for that.

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While I'm in no position (as a relative no-body in your eyes) to ask anything of you. I did hope you would abstain until at least another group has completed it legit. So it is good to hear you won't essentially 'solve' the fight for people straight off the bat (though expediant individuals - myself included - will no doubt lean on your video). While I've thanked you many times for your transparent attitude. Of all things, I am most grateful for this. I'm glad world first went to those who have fore-sight!

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Originally Posted by RapBreon

I did hope you would abstain until at least another group has completed it legit. So it is good to hear you won't essentially 'solve' the fight for people straight off the bat (though expediant individuals - myself included - will no doubt lean on your video). While I've thanked you many times for your transparent attitude.

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We had wanted to wait longer to release a video, but with so much doubt in the community about the legitimacy and bugged/unbugged state of several mechanics in the fight, we felt it was more of a net gain to release the video now without any detailed explanations. The core reason we play the game is to have fun through competition and challenging ourselves, so we tried to strike a compromise. I'm sure some will regret our video release, but we couldn't think of a better way to handle the process.

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Originally Posted by carraway

We do think there's a lot of leeway. A DRG would offer Disembowel debuff to the party, which is roughly a ~7-8% increase in DPS to BRDs I believe. SMN should also work. We liked having two BRDs for this fight despite using melee-heavy strategies for turns 1 and 2, but I definitely think you could get away with just one if you wanted to. Ballad is pretty important during specific parts of the fight in my opinion, but as your group's ilvl increases, you may not need it.

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Can you actually pinpoint where the ones who failed the twister went wrong? To me it looks like they do the same thing but sometimes die, sometimes don't. Which would mean it is still RNG and this method only maximizes survival. I don't need you to tell their exact mistakes which will obviously come with the write-up. Just want a Yes or No answer to that.

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Originally Posted by carraway

We had wanted to wait longer to release a video, but with so much doubt in the community about the legitimacy and bugged/unbugged state of several mechanics in the fight, we felt it was more of a net gain to release the video now without any detailed explanations. The core reason we play the game is to have fun through competition and challenging ourselves, so we tried to strike a compromise. I'm sure some will regret our video release, but we couldn't think of a better way to handle the process.

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That seems entirely fair. To be honest I'd like SE to get involved with the confirming/denying of legitimate kills rather than forcing groups to defend their kill by posting a video.

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Originally Posted by Sanca

Can you actually pinpoint where the ones who failed the twister went wrong? To me it looks like they do the same thing but sometimes die, sometimes don't. Which would mean it is still RNG and this method only maximizes survival. I don't need you to tell their exact mistakes which will obviously come with the write-up. Just want a Yes or No answer to that.

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Yes, we can.

So... the mechanic is to run in a small clockwise circle?

I dub thee: Spintania!

It's funny how it looks relatively easy on the video when done just right. Nice job!

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Originally Posted by Cynthis

It's funny how it looks relatively easy on the video when done just right. Nice job!

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Don't let looks decieve you, the fight is that easy. The only two mechanics in the fight that were any trouble are divebomb, which the only method to give results to get through it is a near exploit in my opinion, and twister which everyone knew what the deal was with it but not the dance to appease the gods. All in all this is the pinnacle of their raid design, undertuned, poorly tested, and gimmicky. It leaves a very sour taste in my mouth and inspires no confidence in their future content.

That takes nothing away from BG and their fine kill though. Congrats.

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Originally Posted by Liander

Don't let looks decieve you, the fight is that easy. The only two mechanics in the fight that were any trouble are divebomb, which the only method to give results to get through it is a near exploit in my opinion, and twister which everyone knew what the deal was with it but not the dance to appease the gods. All in all this is the pinnacle of their raid design, undertuned, poorly tested, and gimmicky. It leaves a very sour taste in my mouth and inspires no confidence in their future content.

That takes nothing away from BG and their fine kill though. Congrats.

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Soooo... everyone will clear it tomorrow?

I would say those who want to put in the time to ironing out the execution of the dance and the last phase shouldn't have much trouble downing her tomorrow. That's the nature of knowledge.

grtz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuyML5lbC3g
this video is with exploit? i dont see what bug they use.

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Originally Posted by Anjali

grtz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuyML5lbC3g
this video is with exploit? i dont see what bug they use.

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Compare the boss behaviour in two vids and it's pretty clear it is. :P I would assume it has something to do with the tank DCing in the middle of fight (off tank pulls hate, then DC's and comes back and boss won't use any special abilities after that)? Not familiar with the fight or its bugs myself.

I wonder what I would have to do as a Summoner to make sure my pet doesn't get DEMOLISHED on that last phase... I guess put it somewhere away from everyone else?

The nerdgasming is utterly adorable. I admit, I'm all kinds of jelly. Congrats on this from those of us on Siren just about to finally start Coil, now content with the knowledge that there is hope for T5. :D

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Originally Posted by C-croft

Soooo... everyone will clear it tomorrow?

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I think that now that there is proof that is has been beaten and there is a blueprint we will see a high number of linkshells clearing it by the end of the week. Now that we know the key to the twister it is only a matter of hammering it out and getting through the last phase for so many free companies. I think a big problem was that trying to figure out the mechanic itself destroyed the morale of most free companies and they weren't even trying the fight on a regular basis. So in that respect, while the video may be a step by step guide that needs to be followed, it is even more so proof that the fight can actually be beaten and will cause many people to actually start logging in to play on a regular basis again until the fight is downed. Unfortunately, I think that most of those people are probably going to end up only logging in on mondays again in 2 weeks time. Regardless, well done on the fight. That twister feels like a punch in the gut to anyone that complained about the new control scheme in 2.0 and begged for legacy controls back.

Congratulations, BG. It's kind of funny how easy the fight looks when a strategy is executed to near perfection. Well deserved world first.

You guys make twister look so easy. We were attempting something similar but people still kept getting picked off, guess the timing is just very very tight. Well played, BG.

So the main tank standing in the Conflag circle, getting stunned, and causing the boss to stand there and not attack isn't glitching the fight? A boss standing there trying to attack an unattackable player seems kinda like something that isn't working as intended to me... Great job of the fight as a whole though =) Not trying to take anything away from the kill but you could have just had the main tank stay out of conflag and continue to get hit - your conflags were getting dpsed down plenty quick.

So am I to understand the the Twister just auto kills whoever it happens to target? If so, I would assume it would never target the Main Tank similar to Titan's Goal ability. Would this assumption be correct?

Haven't had the chance to actually get to this fight yet myself, but I'm all for learning about what's to come when I do get there.

Apparently you just move 2 steps forward and 1 to the right to hope that RNG doesn't kill you. Worst mechanic ever.

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Originally Posted by Onolock

Apparently you just move 2 steps forward and 1 to the right to hope that RNG doesn't kill you. Worst mechanic ever.

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Looks like someone has some pretty awful reading comprehension

Imo from the looks of the video it just seems random on Twisters and the way to avoid Divebombs is probably not ment to be done like that, just like people glitch out Chimera to avoid having to deal with some of the mechanics. Congratulations on the kill.

They say that they can dodge 80%-90% of them, that probably means that the mechanic is not working properly or they dont really know how to avoid it. Makes no sense to have a mechanic that will always end up killing someone.

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

Makes no sense to have a mechanic that will always end up killing someone.

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Agreed. That part I just don't really understand.

I'm pretty sure they've clearly tried to Silence/Stun it so I can't imagine what any other way would be to stop it.

Good kill - don't let the haters get you down. You all have very good coordination - it's pretty clear you've been working on Twintania for weeks.

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

Imo from the looks of the video it just seems random on Twisters and the way to avoid Divebombs is probably not ment to be done like that, just like people glitch out Chimera to avoid having to deal with some of the mechanics. Congratulations on the kill.

They say that they can dodge 80%-90% of them, that probably means that the mechanic is not working properly or they dont really know how to avoid it. Makes no sense to have a mechanic that will always end up killing someone.

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It's possible that there is a way to dodge the twisters with 100% success that is different from the way BG is dealing with them.
It's also possible that SE only tested the boss on local machines with 0 latency and that the terrible netcode is causing RNG deaths.

I think BG is doing it right...

Why in the world would people think that "everyone stack up!" strategy for dive-bomb phase is not intended? If Twintania is random-targeting people, cannot be tanked or directed in anyway, why WOULDN'T you stack up?

I think this is the right and, more importantly, logical way to deal with the divebombs.

And I think the twister-dodging looks fun sorry. I can't wait to try my hand at it this week. :3

Time to start training... Lord knows I can't hardly tell my left from my right if it gets late enough.

Congratulations on the kill! Was a lot of fun to watch that video even knowing the outcome. Also happy to see a monk in the party, especially with people complaining how weak it is (it is not).

Question: while you already said you don't have any PS3 players among you, what about PC gamepad users?

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

Congratulations on the kill! Was a lot of fun to watch that video even knowing the outcome. Also happy to see a monk in the party, especially with people complaining how weak it is (it is not).

Question: while you already said you don't have any PS3 players among you, what about PC gamepad users?

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We don't have any gamepad users, everyone in this video was using the Mouse and Keyboard configuration.

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Originally Posted by NarwhalShadowsun

Looks like someone has some pretty awful reading comprehension

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You obviously don't know what a joke is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-step_%28dance_move%29

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Originally Posted by Junpei

We don't have any gamepad users, everyone in this video was using the Mouse and Keyboard configuration.

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Maybe I'm just blind or the quality of my monitor is just bad, but I didn't notice you use hardly any cooldowns during the fight aside from FOF and the occasional Foresight it seemed. Is there anything specific you save some of them for?

Good job guyz, i have seen the vidéo, your fight was awesome !

Congratz for this 1st World Down !

Congrats BG!! Watching some of the other FC's on here crying up a storm regarding this fight was disheartening and to see you guys beat it, all the while, maintaining a very low key status and not doomsaying this boss fight is a great and overall classy approach.

GJ guys. Much respect.

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Originally Posted by Onolock

You obviously don't know what a joke is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-step_%28dance_move%29

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It's really hard to gather humor from a pretty straight forward statement...

Your joke is equal to the hints that Twintania gives on how to beat her.

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Originally Posted by VidulaSaix

Maybe I'm just blind or the quality of my monitor is just bad, but I didn't notice you use hardly any cooldowns during the fight aside from FOF and the occasional Foresight it seemed. Is there anything specific you save some of them for?

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Information behind the cooldowns will come when we release our full strategy.