[dev1008] Petition to have Jumping implement

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

This whole thread is debating whether jumping should be added or not and not if it should be added NOW, it's already been stated that it's low priority for now so we all know that already.

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The debate that happened over the past few pages were about adding jumping in the game's current state, which is most likely translated to "now."

Hence what you quoted me on.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

The debate that happened over the past few pages were about adding jumping in the game's current state, which is most likely translated to "now."

Hence what you quoted me on.

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Really? i only saw you say NOW.... I think it was clear from Yoshi-P's letter that it's not happening now. It's just that some people got scared by the low priority and then "risk analysis" statements and started this thread. Other against jumping where reading "jumping abolished"

If you go a couple of pages back you will find my post clarifying the dev's intentions on this matter.

And here I thought they were talking about the Dragoon Jump ability :(

Well whatever the case, there is no sense in continuing the discussion. I've said what needs to be said.

EDIT: I mean the discussion between you and me. In other words, I am done here.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

And here I thought they were talking about the Dragoon Jump ability :(

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We should get a Dragoon to start with... but for sure they will have a jump action/ability/spell.... It's what they do! ;)

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Well whatever the case, there is no sense in continuing the discussion. I've said what needs to be said.

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Finally something we can agree on.

So jumping is still being added just not yet. That's cool. Yay for modernizing the game from the historic ages with jump and various other cool features :D

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So jumping is still being added just not yet. That's cool. Yay for modernizing the game from the historic ages with jump and various other cool features

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For the time being it's not on the list of current things to do. They still haven't determined if they will or not. Nothing else can be said about it with certainty.

When i first read the list updates and saw the revision of jump i knew the forum was going to explode. Just yesterday(?) it was all peaceful and many were surprised. I was hoping they would have found something newer to dramatize. This is boring (luckily SE locked the other jump thread).

meh, i never cared for jumping but it has been a lot easier to move around the terrain since their last patch so more collision detection tweaks and i'm fine.

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Originally Posted by Tezz_Xivectro

For the time being it's not on the list of current things to do. They still haven't determined if they will or not. Nothing else can be said about it with certainty.

When i first read the list updates and saw the revision of jump i knew the forum was going to explode. Just yesterday(?) it was all peaceful and many were surprised. I was hoping they would have found something newer to dramatize. This is boring (luckily SE locked the other jump thread).

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It is in the list of future things.

I'll stand by my opinion and say "No" I do not want jumping in this game in any way/shape/form. Thats just my opinion on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I'll stand by my opinion and say "No" I do not want jumping in this game in any way/shape/form. Thats just my opinion on the matter.

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just because you don't like it?

I use to be one of the "WE NEED JUMP!" people, but since they fixed the collision detection I'm very happy. \(^ - ^)/

An auto-jump when you get close to a ledge could be cool in a tower climbing sort of dungeon. Just for that feeling of vertigo it could add.

Jumping is retarded in most games. You jump really high and land in slow motion, and you don't go forward that much. The only time I will care for jumping if it's like freerunning where you do acrobatic stuff and if they allow us to fight midair.

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Originally Posted by Dyne

Jumping is retarded in most games. You jump really high and land in slow motion, and you don't go forward that much. The only time I will care for jumping if it's like freerunning where you do acrobatic stuff and if they allow us to fight midair.

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fight midair - exactly what I need

Dissidia Final Fantasy XIV must be awesome, a lot of oldschool players gonna cry!

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Originally Posted by Ceons

It is in the list of future things.

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Originally Posted by Tezz_Xivectro

For the time being it's not on the list of current things to do. They still haven't determined if they will or not. Nothing else can be said about it with certainty.

When i first read the list updates and saw the revision of jump i knew the forum was going to explode. Just yesterday(?) it was all peaceful and many were surprised. I was hoping they would have found something newer to dramatize. This is boring (luckily SE locked the other jump thread).

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For the time being it's not on the list of current things to do. They still haven't determined if they will or not. Nothing else can be said about it with certainty.

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For the time being it's not on the list of current things to do.

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list of current things

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current

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Future Tasks being put in Current Tasks could take months. Not worth the effort for the time being.

Aside from the June update, i'd like to know if FF14 will be at E3.

I really don't see the argument against jump, and I really don't see why so many people are against it. Sure, jump may not have been in previous Final Fantasy game, but throughout the Final Fantasy series they add new story, new worlds, new monsters, new battle systems and new features. Why is everyone so upset if jump is one of these new features?

I'm not really for or against jump, although I do think it looks a bit silly when you walk up or down terrain as if you just slide up and down the wall, it looks a little silly. Also, why does everyone always say "if you want jump, go play wow"? I hate to break it to you but WoW is not the only MMO with jump.

I see arguments like -

"Jumping is not realistic, how often do you see people jump in real life?"

This is a fantasy game as mentioned, we aren't playing a game where we sit at our desks all day playing on the computer. If you were out in the wild and there was a small ledge, would you walk 20 feet to go around it jump off the 2 foot high ledge? Would you walk around a fallen log or move over it? Honestly, its not all that impractical.

"Why are they adding jump when they could be adding in other things??"

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

The dev team is actually split up into a bunch of smaller teams, each dedicated to a certain facet of the game. Off the top of my head, there’s the scenario team, the world settings team (including seasonal events), the item team, the crafting and gathering team, the battle team, the level design team, the art team, the character team, the BG team, the UI team, and so on and so forth. Each team focuses on certain game content or a particular system, and all teams’ tasks are ongoing simultaneously. There are VFX, animation, and cutscenes as well, so quite a few teams. Within each, there are staff members whose job it is to carry out the tasks of each patch, and others who focus on the large-scale elements and core of the game.

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"I don't want to see people jumping around in my game!!"

For one, this isn't your game. If seeing people jump around in an online game is really that annoying to you, you might be better off playing something single player. In an MMO you are going to come across different people from different places with different opinions and were raised in a different way. This is life, you need to learn to deal with the fact that you can't force your ideals down someone else's throat.

People need to seriously stop getting upset over things so trivial, adding jump might actually allow them to add interesting terrain and dungeon mechanics, I think that would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

just because you don't like it?

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Face it, there's legitimate reasons that it's not needed, hence why Yoshida himself says it's very low priority instead of normal priority where it was.

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Originally Posted by Nikita

Stuff

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Yoshi-P:

Examination of the implementation of jumping(moved from Current Tasks as lower priority)
*Implementation dependent upon risk analysis

The main argument against it, as people love to ignore, is they're changing collision detections, which is all jumping is, a movement to get around CD.

A normal WoW-like jump is not necessary. Any kind of jump is not necessary when they fix edge collision.

However, I would like to see the jump they had in FFXIII and apparently FFX-2 where you go to an edge/ledge/spot and press a key and it'll give you a cool little jump animation. That would be great IMO and would add an extra layer of "reality" to the game and would allow for awesome crags in Thanalan for you to jump across :)

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Yoshi-P:

Examination of the implementation of jumping(moved from Current Tasks as lower priority)
*Implementation dependent upon risk analysis

The main argument against it, as people love to ignore, is they're changing collision detections, which is all jumping is, a movement to get around CD.

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As I said in my post which I'm not quite sure if you read, I think the main problem people have with simply adding in "advanced collision detection" is the fact that it looks like you are sliding up and down walls, it looks completely silly, it looks worse than if they just added jump in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Nikita

As I said in my post which I'm not quite sure if you read, I think the main problem people have with simply adding in "advanced collision detection" is the fact that it looks like you are sliding up and down walls, it looks completely silly, it looks worse than if they just added jump in my opinion.

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We don't know if it's going to slide or if they're going to change it.

However, a player-controlled jump-anywhere button would result in bunny hops. You simply can't deny that there will always be people who are going to spam the jump button.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

We don't know if it's going to slide or if they're going to change it.

However, a player-controlled jump-anywhere button would result in bunny hops. You simply can't deny that there will always be people who are going to spam the jump button.

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I get annoyed when people try to make baseless arguments for trivial things, yet I post on the forums. I get annoyed when telemarketers call my house yet I don't shut off my phone. I hate commercials yet I still watch TV. I hated school yet I didn't drop out. I hate some of the people where I work yet that doesn't mean I'm going to quit my job.

What does it matter if people are annoyed with people jumping? There will always be player created annoyances, that is part of any MMO. You are annoyed with jumping just as people are annoyed with the "advanced collision detection".

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Yoshi-P:

Examination of the implementation of jumping(moved from Current Tasks as lower priority)
*Implementation dependent upon risk analysis

The main argument against it, as people love to ignore, is they're changing collision detections, which is all jumping is, a movement to get around CD.

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Completely true. We do not NEED it.

The game will draw-in more customers & keep existing ones happy in the long run. There are people out there who will not touch an MMO if it does not have jump. It's idiotic, but there are people like that. They're like the "cosmetic" group of people who thrive off character customization & wandering around.

It shouldn't be priority, but it shouldn't be outright dismissed either. Which it isn't according to the letter.
Jump adds freedom & strategy (if designed for) other than just getting around stuff.


@Thread: The jump-spam argument is weak. There are ways to deal with it, find something better. I'll start you off: "If i wanted a platformer, i'd play Mario"

Repetitive arguments is repetitive.

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Originally Posted by Nikita

What does it matter if people are annoyed with people jumping? There will always be player created annoyances, that is part of any MMO. You are annoyed with jumping just as people are annoyed with the "advanced collision detection".

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People like to nit-pick. There was nothing to argue about the past few days, and now they have something again (even if it's an old argument).

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Originally Posted by Nikita

I get annoyed when people try to make baseless arguments for trivial things, yet I post on the forums. I get annoyed when telemarketers call my house yet I don't shut off my phone. I hate commercials yet I still watch TV. I hated school yet I didn't drop out. I hate some of the people where I work yet that doesn't mean I'm going to quit my job.

What does it matter if people are annoyed with people jumping? There will always be player created annoyances, that is part of any MMO. You are annoyed with jumping just as people are annoyed with the "advanced collision detection".

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I gave a base for my argument against it...people will abuse it for bunny hopping and that's annoying. There's arguments against collision detection too. But we have what we have and I'd prefer the "go to ledge, press button, auto-jump" jump rather than "space to spam jump."

I'm giving a basis for my opinion, I'm not trying to debate here; if you want to debate, do it with somebody else. But don't try to debate about my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Nikita

As I said in my post which I'm not quite sure if you read, I think the main problem people have with simply adding in "advanced collision detection" is the fact that it looks like you are sliding up and down walls, it looks completely silly, it looks worse than if they just added jump in my opinion.

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What people don't realize is with jump you're actually sliding up and down terrain as well, just with a different animation. Your position is being tracked which is sliding up and down the axis when you jump onto and up cliff faces. This is why if you jump you can notice that your character "pops" up higher while in mid air if you jump at a correct point that puts you onto the cliff face. This happens in quite a bit of even offline games.

What they did here was just take out the jump animation portion of it, but the mechanic is in essence the same.

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Originally Posted by Tezz_Xivectro

Completely true. We do not NEED it.

The game will draw-in more customers & keep existing ones happy in the long run. There are people out there who will not touch an MMO if it does not have jump. It's idiotic, but there are people like that. They're like the "cosmetic" group of people who thrive off character customization & wandering around.

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We don't need many things in this game, but that's not to stop them from adding them, and I have never met a single person who said they won't play MMOs because you can jump in them, that's just silly.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

What people don't realize is with jump you're actually sliding up and down terrain as well, just with a different animation. Your position is being tracked which is sliding up and down the axis when you jump onto and up cliff faces. This is why if you jump you can notice that your character "pops" up higher while in mid air if you jump at a correct point that puts you onto the cliff face. This happens in quite a bit of even offline games.

What they did here was just take out the jump animation portion of it, but the mechanic is in essence the same.

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I completely realize that it is nearly the same thing, mechanic wise, though I thought I made it clear when I said "it looks silly" that it was the visual aspect of it that some people have an issue with.

Anyway, off to grind raptors.... Have fun.

"Event" jumping, ie jumping a cliff, climbing a wall, etc. by pressing the (!) button. No more.

What a bunch of whinners like jump is some kind of revolutional feature its just as an old concept just like auto-attack is. Seriously can any of you come up with a concept that hasn't been implented in some way or another in a game or mmo. Your argument over this feature's that been out there for year's is in general are all invaild. If they add this or not I really don't care it's an old feature nothing special about it. Really just like any game majority of all games have the same feature's it just how the dev team design it and implements it that makes the difference.

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Originally Posted by Nikita

I get annoyed when people try to make baseless arguments for trivial things, yet I post on the forums. I get annoyed when telemarketers call my house yet I don't shut off my phone. I hate commercials yet I still watch TV. I hated school yet I didn't drop out. I hate some of the people where I work yet that doesn't mean I'm going to quit my job.

What does it matter if people are annoyed with people jumping? There will always be player created annoyances, that is part of any MMO. You are annoyed with jumping just as people are annoyed with the "advanced collision detection".

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But if those really annoying things didn't exist yet & there was a group of people demanding their implementation because they thought those annoying things were "fun" you'd be against it, yes? = D

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Originally Posted by EdenArchangel

"Event" jumping, ie jumping a cliff, climbing a wall, etc. by pressing the (!) button. No more.

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They added event ladders in FF11 at one point. This would make sense. Also If they added strait up jumping. They couldn't do things like that maze mountain that 11 had. The one where there were weird gaps and edges you had to learn to get through. I like those mazes.




- On the topic of people saying "Why can't they do jumping if they're adding <insert>?"

Let me ask. Why can't someone mix orange if they're trying to mix green with blue and yellow? I feel this will go by some people. I'll try to elaborate.

They don't need to redesign the terrain to compliment changes in a battle system. They've been changing the way monsters work in order to domino their changes to the battle system. If you took a school exam you might be familiar with

Jumping is to Environment : as : Auto-Attacking is to Monster Engagement

The environment wouldn't affect the battle unless something radical was done was multi level plane battle. Which as far as I can tell, it only reads as "you're too low/high to hit that". Pretty much being too far away. The only thing I can imagine people bringing up now is jumping as a battle strategy. This isn't rogue-tastic wow pvp. If I saw an hnm getting wooped up on by 8 players bunny hopping to kingdom come, I'd be a little embarrassed to be associated even if only by the fact we play the same game.

If it's not associated, its not a valid argument in the world of "If they can do A why can't they do B."

This touches on some other's comments. They have divided teams.Each team/division works on a different aspect. The argument I heard is. If they're adding "this and that", why doesn't another team give us jump so we get it faster. Understandable. The word I'll use here is pipeline. Even if there's a team developing battle and a team developing "environment gameplay" they still have to figure out how they'll roll it out. How it affects other things if they release it at the same time. Etc. I assume they have a team that works on the actual updating part. File organization and what not. But one of those groups still may have something higher priority jump. It kinda sounds to me like people are feeling butt-hurt because they're getting told what they feel is of high priority is not. This is an opinion fight territory which I hate. But basically, it's boiled down to who's doing the work and what is THEIR priority.

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Originally Posted by Nikita

I get annoyed when people try to make baseless arguments for trivial things, yet I post on the forums. I get annoyed when telemarketers call my house yet I don't shut off my phone. I hate commercials yet I still watch TV. I hated school yet I didn't drop out. I hate some of the people where I work yet that doesn't mean I'm going to quit my job.

What does it matter if people are annoyed with people jumping? There will always be player created annoyances, that is part of any MMO. You are annoyed with jumping just as people are annoyed with the "advanced collision detection".

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This is part of life. Learning how to deal with things different than you. So I can agree with you. The only thing I can think of in this case is that its simply sect groups who would like to see an overall majority of a community act in a manner which they agree with. It's like housing associations. That shit sucks. But people still do it. Which is turn things that are different that you learn to deal with. D=
Like personally...I don't like chuck norris jokes. I think they're old hat. I'd PREFER to play in a place where I didn't have to deal with them. But I still hear them in FF14 occasionally. As unfortunate as I may consider that..../sigh

(I think my speech has been deteriorating over the amount of times I post to the forums.)

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Originally Posted by odintius

What a bunch of whinners like jump is some kind of revolutional feature its just as an old concept just like auto-attack is. Seriously can any of you come up with a concept that hasn't been implented in some way or another in a game or mmo. Your argument over this feature's that been out there for year's is in general are all invaild. If they add this or not I really don't care it's an old feature nothing special about it. Really just like any game majority of all games have the same feature's it just how the dev team design it and implements it that makes the difference.

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I feel like I have one but I wouldn't want to describe it without a contract. D=




---Waitan for thread to get locked.--- lol I hope this thread is getting read by lots of devs.

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

He's a pushover who does whatever the looudest voice tells him to. He saw you guys whining about not liking jump and was like "okay then, I dont want to step on any toes" and then he decided to focus on "I dont want to spam 111" whiners.

And hence auto-attack was born.

So of course we are blaming Yoshi. But by extension, we are blaming the whiners who puppeteer his strings.

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Lol you sound so unbelievably pathetic. Maybe when you grow up you'll laugh at yourself but in the meantime everyone else here will laugh at you.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

just because you don't like it?

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I've explained my point on this in previous "Jump" threads. It provides no tactile feedback and kills my imersion as every character will need to be able to "Jump" the same distance or it would be unfair.

I'm sorry if I don't wana Lalafells doing moon jumps while the Elzen is having a hard time lifting his legs. They allready make it so you can scale sheer cliffs with mere willpower instead of walking up the ramp beside it. Why do we need a jump feature?

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Originally Posted by Sushirom

I feel like I have one but I wouldn't want to describe it without a contract. D=




---Waitan for thread to get locked.--- lol I hope this thread is getting read by lots of devs.

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Amen! This topic over jump is just redundant just don't care if it's added or not really doesn't matter either way.

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

I've played Zelda for years and none of the 3D versions have jump and that didn't make them any less fun.

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Uh... wrong. Every single Zelda game has had a jump function ever since Ocarina of Time on the N64. It's an auto-jump function, and not a jump-button, but it's still jumping. For example, when you run off a ledge or a cliff, Link automatically jumps, whereas in FFXIV you run into an invisible wall when you try to run off a ledge or cliff. Also, Link automatically jumps up small ledges and climbs over bigger ones, both of which would be impassible barriers that you would have to walk all the way around in FFXIV.

Traveling and exploring in the Zelda games would be a huge pain in the ass if it wasn't for the auto-jump function, just like it's a huge pain in the ass in FFXIV and FFXI. It's gotten better since they changed the collision detection, but it's still problem, and the only way to fix it is with a jump function.

If the dev team wants to, they can make it an auto-jump like Zelda instead of a jump-button like Mario, but one way or another we need to be able to jump.

OK, end of discuss

Jump defeated No-Jump

4-0

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Originally Posted by Evangela

OK, end of discuss

Jump defeated No-Jump

4-0

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you really got to stop assuming your opinion is fact

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

Uh... wrong. Every single Zelda game has had a jump function ever since Ocarina of Time on the N64. It's an auto-jump function, and not a jump-button, but it's still jumping. For example, when you run off a ledge or a cliff, Link automatically jumps, whereas in FFXIV you run into an invisible wall when you try to run off a ledge or cliff. Also, Link automatically jumps up small ledges and climbs over bigger ones, both of which would be impassible barriers that you would have to walk around in FFXIV.

Traveling and exploring in the Zelda games would be a huge pain in the ass if it wasn't for the auto-jump function, just like it's a huge pain in the ass in FFXIV and FFXI.

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For a split second, I was worried you were defining OoT was the first Zelda. This goes back to an earlier post. Action prompt jumps and climbs. 11 Had those. But still, this would end up as being something added at a much later date. I guess the best way to define this, for me, would be active jumping vs passive jumping. Is it a button you press that you can freely jump as you please, or will you get a jump animation that happens at key areas.


(This thread made me wish I was Yoshi-P trolling as a player. Just so I could come out at the end and be like "This stuff's ridiculous.")

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Originally Posted by Evangela

OK, end of discuss

Jump defeated No-Jump

4-0

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Oh?

Examination of the implementation of jumping(moved from Current Tasks as lower priority)
*Implementation dependent upon risk analysis

So the fact it's at the lowest priority means Jump 'defeated" no-jump? To live in your world.

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Originally Posted by Ceons

you really got to stop assuming your opinion is fact

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Best post to come out of this thread lately.