A word to the Tanks out there.

Typical bad dps thread.

Tank here, that uses df to power level between story quests. At level 46 now having run every single dungeon up to this point on average of 3-10 runs of each dungeon. I have only not completed a grand total of 2 runs so far.

When I open a new dungeon I take 2 min to read a breif over view of the trash and bosses, so that when I get there I can hold the hand of people like op. I have yet to run a single dungeon where the group was prepared in any way. I have to give a quick run down of the same encounters over and over every single time. You expect us tanks to do this, you are selfish and can do the same thing I do qnd google it and learn for yourself and maybe take some leadership and responsibilities for your groups.

Stop blaming tanks. Be a better player yourself and relay on yourself, because as this community has proven like all mmos the average player takes no responsibility and xpects tanks to carry them through.

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Originally Posted by Taemek

[LIST=1][*]If you have no intentions of running a complete Duty dungeon, don't sign up.
[*]If you have no intentions of leading the Duty dungeon, don't sign up.
[*]If you have no intentions of marking the mobs in order of kill and cc, don't sign up.

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if you have any intention of killing what isn't almost dead, please don't use df
if you have any intention of casting sleep on mobs instead of healing the tank like you are supposed to, please don't use df
if your gear is bad and your ability to play the game is even worse, please don't use df

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Originally Posted by Ruminate

A tank that marks the targets is average.
A tank that doesn't mark the targets is either really bad...
...or really good.

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This makes zero sense...

Guess I'm just an old-skool tank that believes all this should be "all part of the service." *shrug*

For the most part, I totally understand the frustrations of the tanks here who disagree. It requires a tremendous amount of patience to tolerate the arrogant self-absorbed asshats with entitlement issues that seem to comprise a significant part of the player community. No amount of skill, planning, or explanation, will get them to change so the only recourse is usually to quit. Of course, they later hop on the forums and make yet another "Omgz, tank ragequit!" post.

Can't win, really.

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Originally Posted by MorbidAngel

This makes zero sense...

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it means that if your tank doesn't mark and they can keep aggro, that they are pretty great at doing their job

i only mark current focus target and there has never been an issue with my groups, most dps have the common sense to kill what is already dying / been started on

i have gone without healing for 9 seconds or been below 20% as a result of a healer casting sleep instead of healing me more often than i have had problems keeping aggro or just died to too much incoming damage

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Originally Posted by Luciano_Bozzelli

Some of us come from a world of FFXI where there were no marks to put on a mob's head. We as a group knew... tank gets hate, we sleep adds, group handles adds, fight what the tank is fighting, and move to the next.

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This x 100. To FFXI vets, markings are like training wheels. I like any aid, it will make you weak if you have to rely on it. In FFXI you spent countless hours honing party dynamics so that in critical an unexpected situations, everyone knew exactly what to do intuitively. I don't see that developing in FFXIV if we keep using markings. I use them only when I see the group needs some directly. But then I also give them tips, like:-

Please wait for me to attack before attacking
Use /assist
If in doubt attack the mob with the lowest health
Don't attack a slept mob
Target spell users first.
If you get hate, run toward me, not away.

Stuff like this goes a long way. Marking is a training tool if anything.

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Originally Posted by MorbidAngel

This makes zero sense...

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I'll break it down for you:-

A tank that marks the targets is average. [Knows he needs training wheels and uses them]

A tank that doesn't mark the targets is either really bad... [Doesn't use training wheels, and doesn't know he needs them]

...or really good. [Doesn't need training wheels so doesn't use them]

Heh heh....you guys play on the PC don't you?

Those mechanics become quite a bit more difficult and macro-dependent if you play on PS3. I've played many MMOs without marking, etc, but with some people on PS3 targeting, and the fast paced, cross-server Duty Finder, these tools (marking specifically) are good things to have.

Also, wouldn't a tank that doesn't need the "training wheels" (also, the training wheels would be for everyone else, not the tank, so this would a judgement call based on the other people in the group), but also marks would still be average?

/assist has serious issues because of target switching done by tanks - I switch targets almost constantly to check enmity levels. Why does going the extra mile to prevent idiocy from occurring in stressful situations make you average? What if I notice something about a target that no one else has, and I need to communicate that on the fly? Type it? I'm using a controller : D

The tank that doesn't need training wheels is one that can keep the threat and survive despite what the DDs and healers are doing.

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Originally Posted by Kuvu

It will get worse before it gets better, around 41 it gets better but then you still have the idiot archers that get agro and then proceed to kite the mob instead of stop attacking so you can get it off them.

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I had a bard in my AK group last night that was trying to pull every group of mobs. I eventually started running ahead before the last mob of a group was down so I could get to the next group before him. Of course, he started firing even before they got to me when I did manage to at least get a shield lob off first. He also kept telling me to "just go" on bosses while I was trying to explain the fight to the healer who had never been there before. I mean, it actually makes it take longer when we are having to chase mobs around while he kites them. I wanted to just stop trying to pull them off, but the healer was too nice to stop healing him. We got through the dungeon without any wipes or anything, but it was extremely frustrating.

I always try to know a dungeon beforehand, take the lead, mark, etc., but if you want tanks to take this kind of leadership responsibility, you have to be a team player and help out. Too many people think the tank should do the heavy lifting while they stand there and pew pew while watching TV. Of course, I have encountered many dps that are very friendly and fun to play with as well, don't get me wrong.