The Future of Serious Gamers in ARR

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Originally Posted by Orophin

As an amateur league bowler, I have to say that was a pretty terrible analogy comparing bowling to gaming.

Bowling's structure (like most sports) is determined at the professional level. Casual and amateur bowlers bowl 10 frame games because that's how the game was made. If they determine it's better overall at the professional level to only have five frames per game, that's where changes will be made and it will affect everyone else.

There is no professional level of gaming in MMOs. There is content developed that only a small portion of the playerbase will ever accomplish, but the game as a whole has to be designed to attract more than that small selection of people else the game wouldn't make money, and that's the point of making any kind of product.

All I can take from your post is based on what little bit of information is out about the game, you're afraid it's going to be too easy and ONLY cater to people who only have a couple hours a day to play. If the boss fights designed in 1.0 are any indication, there will be challenging content that only a small percentage of the playerbase will be able to accomplish. But there will also be plenty of content that EVERYONE will get to enjoy.

This is a game designed for a large amount of people to play, (massively multiplayer?) not just a select few. Just like bowling. 128 people compete for 4 spots at the pro level tournaments. Those are your hardcores. Amateur league bowlers and people who just come in to have fun are your midcores and casuals.

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get that fact based logical thinking out of here, hyperbole and other assorted fallacies only
also hi oro

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Originally Posted by Ricky

get that fact based logical thinking out of here, hyperbole and other assorted fallacies only
also hi oro

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I'll start.

Among the many demands of the casual player audience, we would like to add free play among them.

get rid of low drop rate, randomness, fight restrictions like you must have 4+ players, then things can work for everyone.
if your whole progress has to stop just to find one guy to fill a spot in your party even if not needed thats pointless

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I also liked what Yoshi-P said in that quote:
So all the hardcore gamers – those who really want to complete the latest content straight away and get the rewards the quickest – those people are the more dedicated players. If they really want to do that they will probably need quit their job just to play XIV.

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i bet money thats not gonna happen people seem to run through content in all the mmo's pertty fast. i hope that does not mean more randomness, even with all the randomness in V1 people were knocking it out in a week or two.

I was not happy with the ways things were going in FFXIV..
Leveling got stupid easy and everyone got into this
"If I can't get in in one week it's to hard" state of mind.
They went to crying and complaining, then bam. Yoshi makes it insanely easy to do like everything..
Leveling was an insult..
It was waaayy to easy..
Especially for those of us who started with the game, that grinded our ways to 50..
Then a bunch of nubs hop in and all get 50 in one week. It really was insultingly easy..

No sense of accomplishment for your hard work, kind of kills an MMO imo..
Making it super easy to level = no sense of accomplishment..
Well it does to me anyway..

If I wanted to play games that weren't a challenge. I'd just play scrabble or something..
So I have high hopes for some hardcore content here..

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Originally Posted by TRALYNN

I think you missed what this guy was talking about. This guys rather hilarious rant was about people complaining about easy modes that don't effect the hard modes. It ends with him saying "unless the entire game is being upended and altered and dumbed down you have nothing to fear". And that is what people are complaining about - the games are being upended and altered and dumbed down.

I don't care hardcore or casual or whatever you are. I like to play with everyone, but I like to play content that is not so easy I could do it half asleep. I'm not saying FFXIV is that easy - we won't really know until it's finished and we all get to play it.

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This isn't Kirbys Epic Yarn, there's going to be a challenge.

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Originally Posted by Hessarial

I want to play an MMO with all these features in the world of Final Fantasy...

Not a field of grind mods so i can reach the fabled "LVL 50" after a month of killing them, looking at you OP.

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Then you've completely missed his point. We just want a chance to go beyond the limit average gamers stop at.

It doesn't have to be the old fashioned grinding like in EQ1, that is just one of the many aspects of a MMO like ARR.

We could make it alot more advanced, for example:
1) A advanced PvP ranking system with awards/rewards (for serious pvpers)
2) A advanced crafts ranking system (for the serious crafters)
3) And so on...

We could combine all these and have many different challenges so that casual gamers have alot of content to spend their little time on and the more advanced challenges should appeal to the more serious gamers, who are willing to spend more time on the game. That being said, there will be plenty to do for casual gamers already, but give us serious gamers a chance as well to shine, a chance to go beyond the limit where average gamers stop at.

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Originally Posted by Hessarial

70% of mmo players in the current generation fit. they are the "end game" players. We end game players enjoy our climb to capping our preferred role/profession, but for us, the real game starts when we are able to play the level cap "end game" content.

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I don't disagree with your post in general (I want challenging content, too), but I'm curious where the 70% comes from. Are you saying something like a majority of people are "rush to endgame" players? If so, I can't really agree with that.

From everything I've seen, most MMO gamers play less than 30 hours/week, and it seems like the "rush to endgamers" would be more like 20% or less.

I like endgame, but I'm in no rush to get there. I would hope a majority of players want challenging content, but that should start once we get past the starter/tutorial levels, with dungeons and missions or whatever. I would hope an MMO would be more challenging than to allow even a "hardcore" player to get to level cap in less than a month or so. But it doesn't really bother me how fast other people get to endgame, especially if they're spending most of their non-work/non-sleep time to do so.

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Originally Posted by auritribe

This isn't Kirbys Epic Yarn, there's going to be a challenge.

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I'm not saying there won't be challenge. I'm kind of a middle of the road gal my self. I loved XI but I don't really want it that hard. I just don't want it to be mind numbingly easy either. My post really was just to point out that your link was not quite what you thought it was. Not in a snarky way though :)

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Originally Posted by LugoSthalsmyd

Then you've completely missed his point. We just want a chance to go beyond the limit average gamers stop at.

It doesn't have to be the old fashioned grinding like in EQ1, that is just one of the many aspects of a MMO like ARR.

We could make it alot more advanced, for example:
1) A advanced PvP ranking system with awards/rewards (for serious pvpers)
2) A advanced crafts ranking system (for the serious crafters)
3) And so on...

We could combine all these and have many different challenges so that casual gamers have alot of content to spend their little time on and the more advanced challenges should appeal to the more serious gamers, who are willing to spend more time on the game. That being said, there will be plenty to do for casual gamers already, but give us serious gamers a chance as well to shine, a chance to go beyond the limit where average gamers stop at.

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I agree with you, thats what i was trying to say in so many words. Ive played a lot of mmo's where all it is a grind. Advanced systems for different roles would be a great addition

things like pvp ladder's, LS achievements ect, and for the PvE side, higher tier harder content with better rewards and such.

Hm.. I dont know about crafting, but an advanced system sounds like a good idea if it is implemented right.

What im trying to say i guess is that, dont make things harder by making them take more of a grind, make them harder for more hardcore players by challenging them.
+1

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Originally Posted by ArkhamNative

I don't disagree with your post in general (I want challenging content, too), but I'm curious where the 70% comes from. Are you saying something like a majority of people are "rush to endgame" players? If so, I can't really agree with that.

From everything I've seen, most MMO gamers play less than 30 hours/week, and it seems like the "rush to endgamers" would be more like 20% or less.

I like endgame, but I'm in no rush to get there. I would hope a majority of players want challenging content, but that should start once we get past the starter/tutorial levels, with dungeons and missions or whatever. I would hope an MMO would be more challenging than to allow even a "hardcore" player to get to level cap in less than a month or so. But it doesn't really bother me how fast other people get to endgame, especially if they're spending most of their non-work/non-sleep time to do so.

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The "rush to endgame:" i would say would be people that are the content pushers themselves (realm first, world first, ect). I wasnt saying that that comprises 70% of players, i meant to get across that 70(ish) percent from my experience, dont necessarily rush, but the meat of of the game is at level cap for them and their groups/guilds.