All Worlds Maintenance (Nov. 7)

To Kill a Raven was a quest to stop Darnus from calling down Dalamud as it had been assumed he had become a beacon calling it down in place of the Lunar Transmitter.

Living on a prayer was the conclusion of To Kill a Raven and the final set of actions that could be done before Dalamud's impact.

A Raven Nevermore is completly seperate from the story line and was just meant for an endgame challenge.

If you were able to start Living on a prayer before completing To Kill a Raven the story would not flow.

What terru said, especially since the cutscenes in living on a prayer talks about darnus and you defeating him several times. It wouldn't make sense.

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Originally Posted by Matsume

Remind me how Living on a Prayer is contingent upon defeating To Kill a Raven and how you can kill Van Darnus a second time in a Raven Nevermore after having already kicked his face in the first time? Does he simply resurrect to give you an earring? As far as I know, the Twelve Shrines exist regardless of To Kill a Raven, I don't see why the Twelve should neglect my prayers because I have yet to complete To Kill a Raven, hell, one could say I need more help from the twelve before killing van darnus than I do after...

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To kill Darnus to stop Dalamud was plan B (plan A was to destroy the tower in Castrum Novus). It didn't work, so there was plan C: to pray to the gods

You can't ignore the middle of a final story and jump to the end

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

Will the Primals help us? :O Maybe at least mitigate the damage from the impact or something...ah I ramble. Carry on >_>/

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I doubt that will happen. Even if they did, it wouldn't be to help us directly, but out of self-preservation to keep the world from being destroyed.

Even so, I don't know the specifics about the Primals as far as death goes. Technically, we've defeated all the Primals in the 7th Umbral Era story line, but I don't know if we actually destroyed them or just defeated some manifestation of them, since they rely on aetheric energy to exist. We know that once we defeated them that Dalamud absorbed their aetheric energy, but who's to say the beastmen couldn't gather more crystals with which to summon their Primals again?

Edit: As an afterthought, the Primals WILL be in ARR, but I don't know how they will explain this.

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Originally Posted by Terru

To Kill a Raven was a quest to stop Darnus from calling down Dalamud as it had been assumed he had become a beacon calling it down in place of the Lunar Transmitter.

Living on a prayer was the conclusion of To Kill a Raven and the final set of actions that could be done before Dalamud's impact.

A Raven Nevermore is completly seperate from the story line and was just meant for an endgame challenge.

If you were able to start Living on a prayer before completing To Kill a Raven the story would not flow.

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Originally Posted by Eruantien

What terru said, especially since the cutscenes in living on a prayer talks about darnus and you defeating him several times. It wouldn't make sense.

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Originally Posted by Felis

To kill Darnus to stop Dalamud was plan B (plan A was to destroy the tower in Castrum Novus). It didn't work, so there was plan C: to pray to the gods

You can't ignore the middle of a final story and jump to the end

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I fully understand that Living on a Prayer comes after To Kill a Raven chronologically speaking. The twin adder npc says something along the lines of "well since defeating van darnus didn't seem to work Louisoix has come up with this other plan, go see him".

Obviously there is a contextual reference that places Living on a Prayer after To Kill a Raven BUT I don't see any reason why plan C must come after plan B with the exception that Louisoix wasn't smart enough to think of plan C before he thought of plan B. Unless, defeating Van Darnus in To Kill a Raven somehow uncovered the hidden ruins of the lost Twelve Shrines making it thus possible to pray to them in Living on a Prayer. Or maybe The Twelve are deaf to the prayers of those not strong enough to defeat Van Darnus? You and I both know this is not the reason.

The only reason that Living on a Prayer comes after To Kill a Raven is because SE decided on it. Just as they have decided to hand out free relics and change the availability of Living on a Prayer to anyone in a Grand Company. THIS is the problem. I've never been a fan of reasoning "because I said so".

In all honesty, there doesn't yet seem to be a reason, canonically speaking, why Living on a Prayer could not have been available alongside To Kill a Raven. Matter of fact, wouldn't it be logical to pray at the shrines of the Twelve before engaging yourself in a life or death battle with the ultimate foe? Wouldn't you want the Twelve to help you defeat Van Darnus and to bestow their powers upon you in the face of such calamity?

Call me butthurt if it makes you feel better about yourselves but until someone presents to me a valid reason, other than "because SE made it that way", why Living on a Prayer could not have been a prerequisite to To Kill a Raven rather than the other way around...I will stand my ground.

Plan C is much more extreme than Plan B, you know that right?

Plan B: Kill one guy and end it all

Plan C: Summon the manifestation of the 12 gods, draining the majority of the aether from the planet, and potentially ruining the future of Eorzea.

In comparison, Plan B = assassination, Plan C = nuclear war. I pretty sure Lousioux mentions the consequences of summoning the twelve Gods, but i don't remember where, I think perhaps in Living on a Prayer.

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Originally Posted by Pebe

Plan C is much more extreme than Plan B, you know that right?

Plan B: Kill one guy and end it all

Plan C: Summon the manifestation of the 12 gods, draining the majority of the aether from the planet, and potentially ruining the future of Eorzea.

In comparison, Plan B = assassination, Plan C = nuclear war. I pretty sure Lousioux mentions the consequences of summoning the twelve Gods, but i don't remember where, I think perhaps in Living on a Prayer.

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I'll let you know once I finish the quest

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Originally Posted by Pebe

Plan C is much more extreme than Plan B, you know that right?

Plan B: Kill one guy and end it all

Plan C: Summon the manifestation of the 12 gods, draining the majority of the aether from the planet, and potentially ruining the future of Eorzea.

In comparison, Plan B = assassination, Plan C = nuclear war. I pretty sure Lousioux mentions the consequences of summoning the twelve Gods, but i don't remember where, I think perhaps in Living on a Prayer.

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It should be mentioned that said ruination by the Twelve is due to the nature of summoning them in this realm, that their intentions(good or ill) are not even factored in this mess only heightens the desperation of this plan. But the stakes are higher still. That Eorzea have any future at all from Dalamud's descent, that some or our lives and livelihood survive.
We will lose much of our lives, and for some their entirety, here before this is over.

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Originally Posted by Matsume

Obviously there is a contextual reference that places Living on a Prayer after To Kill a Raven BUT I don't see any reason why plan C must come after plan B with the exception that Louisoix wasn't smart enough to think of plan C before he thought of plan B.

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Doesn't Plan C seem more of a last effort type of thing? I mean it makes sense to me.

1. Destroy the communicator device controlling Dalamud. Welp that didn't work, goto:

2. Destroy the bastard communing with the big Meteor/sentient being thing. Guess what, he's dead, big meteor is still hovering overhead getting closer. Well..we're out of ideas now, so out of desperation:

3. Last ditch plan: let's put all our faith in The Twelve and hope they can stop this calamity somehow. The prayer stones activate, Dalamud in the meantime is influencing monsters to attack the main cities, however praying to The Twelve seems to be working as they're granting in the forms of buffs and weapons to fight the monsters and The Twelve themselves are directly involving themselves by destroying some of the more powerful monsters.

TLDR: As a group of adventurers with great power what would you do first; try to kill the guy who started all of this or put total blind faith in Gods, who up until now have remained silent, to somehow fix this mess? I'm not trying to spark any kind of religious debate with this question, just from a game perspective, what seems the most logical choice here?

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Originally Posted by Pebe

Plan C is much more extreme than Plan B, you know that right?

Plan B: Kill one guy and end it all

Plan C: Summon the manifestation of the 12 gods, draining the majority of the aether from the planet, and potentially ruining the future of Eorzea.

In comparison, Plan B = assassination, Plan C = nuclear war. I pretty sure Lousioux mentions the consequences of summoning the twelve Gods, but i don't remember where, I think perhaps in Living on a Prayer.

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That basically sums it up. Always best to solve conflicts through surgical strikes vs. all out assaults.

It's time to accept that SE set the quest progression up as they intended, move on, and enjoy what's left of the game ^^