TP regen

TP has become more like Energy from rogues in WoW- an easily spent but quick to come back resource pool.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

TP has become more like Energy from rogues in WoW- an easily spent but quick to come back resource pool.

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Don't call it quick too early.
Don't forget that combos don't save your TP anymore. ~2 combos rotation (or 3) and your TP is gone if you spam them too fast. And it would need ~1,5 minutes to get back to the full 1000 TP during the battle.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Don't call it quick too early.
Don't forget that combos don't save your TP anymore. ~2 combos rotation (or 3) and your TP is gone if you spam them too fast. And it would need ~1,5 minutes to get back to the full 1000 TP during the battle.

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I think the same as Alhanelem. I don't really care about the values right now, this is an alpha version, nothing has been fully decided yet when it comes to TP costs, regeneration rate and so on.

But when you listen to Yoshida, it really looks like he wants TP to become like in WoW and similar MMOs. The GCD is what will restrict us. Not the cost of abilities. I can sense the same battle mechanics coming, with WS/Spell rotation, very short CD for "special" abilities etc.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

All the more reason to reintroduce SCH and Corsair style buffs if they really want to take the system into this direction. Having everything function the same is what a generic (Standard) MMO is and what everyone wanted SE to do with XIV, everyone got their wish now lets see how long ARR lasts.

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its gonna last far longer then ff14 1.0.. since that was canned a year after release?

I think what you're not looking at: What fight are you going to be wanting to literally spam your WS? You should be pacing your TP, not letting it cap but not letting it run empty. This adds a layer of strategy because you can save it to burst something down.

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Originally Posted by Quatre

I think what you're not looking at: What fight are you going to be wanting to literally spam your WS? You should be pacing your TP, not letting it cap but not letting it run empty. This adds a layer of strategy because you can save it to burst something down.

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I am comparing it to the standard MMO (WoW, Swtor, Rift, ect) which Yoshi is going for here, where you hit your buttons as soon as you are off GCD. People who play mmos like this don't like it when they are standing around waiting to push a button because of lack of a resource in this case TP.

Take rogues for example which someone already mentioned they have a similar system but their energy regens fast enough so they can always be pushing a button every time its available.

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Originally Posted by Luhy

Everyone is equal.

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Not a bad thing. Unless you liked XI's approach of 5 "ace" jobs and 15 fodder jobs.

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Everyone will be jumping like idiots.

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Go look at the Limit Break trailer. Now imagine a chorus of laughter as the group is jumping on their chocobos. The laughter is directed at jump haters. Accompanied by the phrase "eat this and like it".

I'm hoping that TP Regen is tacked on to Ballad, with maybe Arcanist+Carby or WHM getting a MP+TP regen spell to cover for when there is no bard in the group. Could also implement TP regen as a proc from a WS, be it per class (say, Flat Blade for GLA regens TP, Godsbane for MRD regens TP, Leg Sweep for LNC regens TP) or a proc that affects the party (say, Spirits Within procs Regain on everyone within range of the PLD using it for 15 seconds). There are options beyond "let's artificially inflate this job's value by giving them a spell everyone will want in their parties"; I'm just hoping the devs realize that.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

If we forgo separating playstyles, especially for the sake of PvP there's going to be very few classes and jobs they can actually release because for example if everyone can pop off a TP regain ability what would be the point of introducing a mage that can buff for example?

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Short answer: You don't. You make buffs part of the arsenal but give it meaningful gameplay that makes the job appealing to more than the 3 people out of 10,000 that might enjoy spamming buffs. It also prevents bandwagons (FFXI's Red Mage) or cases of extreme rarity and imminent princess syndrome (FFXI's Bard).

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Originally Posted by Luhy

I'm depressed by this new system. I played this game with excitement knowing that Yoshi-P cared about PvP as much as me. We now have to wait 3 seconds after every WS. We also have 3 seconds between Thunder and Thundara. There is no strategy behind saving your TP. There is no strategy behind the order in which you use WSs. Just run in, do something, wait 3 seconds. Everyone is equal. Everyone will be jumping like idiots. Skill doesn't matter, etc, etc.

I never even considered quitting during Tanaka's FFXIV, but now I actually am, knowing how boring PvP will be.

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LMAO! What are you smoking on? Must be something so good. Let me get sooooommmmmeeeeeeee! TROLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Would you rather they keep the 30 second plus cooldowns on WSs? Spamming everything to 0, then having to wait 9 seconds to burst some more, doesn't sound that bad.

I think this system opens up new avenues for TP+ materia/abilities/classes. So instead of having a STR or ACC heavy melee DD you might actually consider forgoing that for a third option. A skill based set up, or perhaps a mixture of all three. As of now with the cooldowns the way they are, TP+ really isn't necessary. On Dragoon I always have enough TP for what I want to do, I just can't do what I want to do based on cooldowns, effectively making it already "WoWish". This negates the need to really concentrate at all on balancing my TP management, and to be honest it's the same with the other melee jobs as well. There's a little more thought that goes into timing attacks based on TP but only slightly more than DRG/LNC.

I could see a potential front line Red Mage carefully resourcing both MP and TP, perhaps using both resources to combo together with this style of system in place. It may not happen but I think it would certainly be interesting.

I also think it's fair to balance mage and melee jobs, not only for PvP but for PvE as well.

When I look back to XI post Aht Urghan pre Abyssea I noticed a great disparity between melee DD's and Black Mages specifically in grinding parties. Everyone wanted a high level BLM for endgame but no one was willing to level with one. Red Mages were fine as they could effectively solo heal an entire party and never run out of MP if they balanced themselves correctly while BLMs were always limited by their MP despite having the 2nd largest pool. This is not mentioning the dreaded casting time that BLMs also had to deal with that the melees did not further, hindering their DPS over time potential.

Making the TP pool regenerate in the same manner as the MP pool I think is a great way to take the battle system and truly balances it out, as stated above, for both PvP and PvE reasons.

It also makes more "rpg" sense to me. Having the stamina to pull off incredible feats of prowess and skill would be more likely after you've rested not after you've been swinging your weapon for any given amount of time or being slapped around*.

I feel inclined to agree with the posts that mention this is alpha and that the numbers aren't finalized yet. I admire the OP for being so diligent in their analysis regardless. I'm hoping we can use this information going into alpha and that alpha testers can give suggestions on how to tweak the numbers based on actual experience with the pacing of combat. I'm hoping that these alpha testers will have the same discerning eye as the OP so that we can fix these problems before the official release, if their are any.

The "Sky is falling" mentality certainly doesn't apply with this particular change to the battle system in my opinion. On the contrary, it potentially makes battles more dynamic by introducing another resource management that has been overlooked since Square Enix's other MMO Final Fantasy XI.

*To be fair an argument could be made for pent up frustrations