Honest idea for 8.0 rework: Trance gauges

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Originally Posted by Valence

Because pvp isn't about playing a sheet of music with your instrument (job). The reason pve keeps combos and all those bloated buttons is precisely because "playing piano" is part of the design. It's all about the tactile feel and memorization, the same way you have to use different combos in a fighting game instead of pressing a single button. The design objectives are completely different sadly.

And I'm not saying that as someone that enjoys it... Far from it.

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True, but they could add it as an accessibility option~

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Yes. I'd rather fix and flesh out what we have (Limit Breaks) than add another half-assed version (Trances) atop it.
That could just be purely cosmetic differences, something like each carrying a different bit of utility across each level of the LB, or even each altogether different kinds of effects (Monk goes Rock Lee or w/e).
Doesn't really matter too much; the main thing is just allowing LBs levels at 1/2/5 instead of 2/4/8, not losing wasting progression upon someone's disconnect, and perhaps trimming the uptime cost a little bit so as not to feel like a damage loss if your top DPS is the one to use it.

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That I can agree with, lowering the amount of people needed per LB level and removing the d/c drain would go a long way.
The different effects would be great as well, but would possibly cause some issues for those story moments that require the specific type of LB. Although it could retain its normal effects (Mits for tank, revive for healers, etc) but with an added effect depending on which job used it such as a second round of Divination from an Astro or mitigations if a White mage used it.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

"Several". See how that's not all?
I'd far rather just activate a buff that augments my skills thereafter without the awkward Vehicle Hotbar BS.

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Several as in pretty much all your attacks that arent on a 60 second cooldown. Since you'd have already burned through your burst and be left with your 1,2,3 combo for the next 40-60 seconds which is where most of the DPS would be using it.
So in reality it wouldn't change much. A buff that augments certain skills or a special gauge that augments those same abilities but is not part of your normal burst window. You just reorganize the vehicle HB to be in the same organization~
Or you could have it not change your hotbars at all, but "Lock" your certain buffs and skills that would be useless in it as per what was mentioned before of how it would not be affected by burst window buffs as then everyone would be forced to wait for that burst window before using their Trances.

The whole reason for the Trance idea is to give everyone more uniqueness to their jobs instead of the current job homogenization where each role is pretty much doing what each other in the role does.
Especially tanks and healers, since tanks have self sustaining that makes healers not needed for the most part in dungeons and all healers having roughly the same kit of barriers, mitigations, regens and the like.

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Originally Posted by Queen-Mog

Or you could have it not change your hotbars at all, but "Lock" your certain buffs and skills that would be useless in it as per what was mentioned before of how it would not be affected by burst window buffs as then everyone would be forced to wait for that burst window before using their Trances.

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This would be far better than your Vehicle Bar idea, and something already precedented (can't waste Perfect Balance charge while already in Perfect Balance, etc.). I'd keep those lockouts absolutely minimal, though. Players can learn to hit their CDs before they're replaced with the Trance-version.

Still, though, I'd prefer to do none of that and just let the flow of combat itself reach the heights and 'coolness' of something like what you want here. Leave the Living Shadow stuff to Living Shadow, etc., or where they're too lackluster, revise the skills themselves. We don't need a 2-min burst function to be reduced to one button instead of the overlap of multiple CDs.

It's bad enough having so many intersect at 2-min instead of carrying competing paths, imho.

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The whole reason for the Trance idea is to give everyone more uniqueness to their jobs instead of the current job homogenization where each role is pretty much doing what each other in the role does.

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Then the last thing I'd want is to see job uniqueness 'fixed' via a wasteful override 5% of the time just so the devs can further handwave away the lacking job distinctions across the remaining 95% of combat.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

This would be far better than your Vehicle Bar idea, and something already precedented (can't waste Perfect Balance charge while already in Perfect Balance, etc.). I'd keep those lockouts absolutely minimal, though. Players can learn to hit their CDs before they're replaced with the Trance-version.
Still, though, I'd prefer to do none of that and just let the flow of combat itself reach the heights and 'coolness' of something like what you want here. Leave the Living Shadow stuff to Living Shadow, etc., or where they're too lackluster, revise the skills themselves. We don't need a 2-min burst function to be reduced to one button instead of the overlap of multiple CDs.
It's bad enough having so many intersect at 2-min instead of carrying competing paths, imho.

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Aye, as a few others have mentioned, the 2 minute burst window is something that does cause issues between players. For me it's bothersome to run into "Buffs on boss only" players in dungeons... ;3; Its a free damage button, press the free damage button!
And yeah, weaving in a trance, ala afterburst, would be rather rewarding in its feeling. Sorta like reaper or viper chaining 3 rage modes in a row, then using their Trance to bring out a 4th harder hitting one would be quite a wonderful feeling to do~

It just reminds me of what MrHappy said in a recent video of his, the end game raiders are the reason for the homogenization of jobs and 2 minute burst windows. Since each job has to have their value and not drag others down, while coordinating well with each other.
But then it becomes difficult to balance when you remove said 2 minute burst window wherein only a few of the 4-8 players have their heavy hitters ready for that 5% more damage. The only thing I could really think of is to make almost all jobs selfish with their own buffs and not rely on others timing it with you.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Then the last thing I'd want is to see job uniqueness 'fixed' via a wasteful override 5% of the time just so the devs can further handwave away the lacking job distinctions across the remaining 95% of combat.

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Could always just shakeup each job like they've done to the summoner and dragoon (For the 7th time >:3)
Plus at this point I'd welcome almost anything that can bring some more senses of uniqueness to jobs that bring their own specialty to a battle. Ranged DPS are pretty much set (Apart from Bard having almost no damage potential of their own...)

I really like this idea. It could be related to job specialties, where after reaching level 100, your job could split into two versions. This would help better differentiate the jobs, featuring new animations and visual effects, without completely redesigning the jobs. Just adding one or two new moves and animation changes would suffice. Additionally, this could align well with a personal limit break system. I don’t understand why the entire party must share a limit break, as it often leads to disagreements and some jobs never even get to use theirs.

Edit: Also, they have not done shit with "Dynamis" which was supposed to be a thing after it saved us in Endwalker. Why not now allow each WOL to have a Dynamis guage, Dynamis Trance whatever. They threw that all in the trash pretty quickly.

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Originally Posted by CheshaSolttiri

I really like this idea. It could be related to job specialties, where after reaching level 100, your job could split into two versions. This would help better differentiate the jobs, featuring new animations and visual effects, without completely redesigning the jobs. Just adding one or two new moves and animation changes would suffice. Additionally, this could align well with a personal limit break system. I don’t understand why the entire party must share a limit break, as it often leads to disagreements and some jobs never even get to use theirs.

Edit: Also, they have not done shit with "Dynamis" which was supposed to be a thing after it saved us in Endwalker. Why not now allow each WOL to have a Dynamis guage, Dynamis Trance whatever. They threw that all in the trash pretty quickly.

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That was one of the things i was thinkin of too. We learn of Dynamis and the power it creates, but not much else happens past that. Even the Omega Ultimate uses Dynamis as its enrage, so us having our own would go quite fittingly tbh~
Unlocking it as a personal Trance/Dynamis mode after completing Endwalker would honestly be quite a perfect fit too considering all that happens in Endwalker. Have it be a specialized blue quest from the minstrel to reflect upon it and realize your potential~!

And Job specialties would be a great way to refine jobs to your own preferences such as a slower, but harder hitting Monk or a Tank with longer, but slightly weaker mitigations that also work on the party as well.