7.3 MSQ Was Absolutely Terrific

In my opinion, the MSQ in 7.3 was much better than it was in 7.0 (which isn't exactly difficult, if we're being honest...). Less Wuk Lamat is always a biiig win for me, though I have to admit that I find it a bit of a shame that she was only injured...and isn't completely gone yet.

The dungeon was fun, the trial was good. I also enjoyed the cute little puzzles during the MSQ, even though they were very easy to solve, of course.

Still, I wasn't exactly thrilled. It was... okay, all in all. But still not at the level of story telling we're used to as long-time players. Calyx is a character that I normally would like quite a bit, in theory he should be an intriguing villain, an intelligent and dangerous genius. But the writing didn't really use this potential, instead they only told us of his so-called intelligence but never once really displayed it to us...which is a shame, because intelligent and cunning villains can be such a joy to hate.
The ending sequence was also way too long for my taste. Half an hour of boring scenes and locations that I and many other players couldn't connect with emotionally during the previous patches was really unnecessary. And then...they do the unthinkable and play "Smile" again... a piece of music that should be banned from the OST altogether.

The last scene, on the other hand, managed to hook me a little. I just hope they don't mess it up, because I actually am intrigued to get to know more of the Ascians we didn't have the pleasure of fighting yet.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

They're not going purely back to their original state; they reflected on the system they had in the past and decided to keep the specific piece of it that they liked while modifying it significantly. Instead of the Queen being an absolute monarch, there's also the equivalent of a council/parliament that's going to work with the "rulers" to govern Alexandria rather than having one single point receiving all of the stress. They're also using the "King of Resolve/Queen of Reason" dual leadership rather than just the single monarch they had pre-Source.

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That's the original state I'm taking about. Gossan literally says "the shape of it government and nation will need to change considerably", followed by "but not in any meaningful way because we'll still have two rulers and one of them is as close to the old one as we can possibly get."

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I didn't get that sense. One of the biggest comments I saw during 7.0 was surprise that they made such an elaborate zone just to "turn it off" after a questline.

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The opinion of cowards and the media illiterate. The zone was a mausoleum for the lost and forgotten. Now it's back to being a theme park, because some players couldn't bear to experience a sense of loss, contrary to the story they had experienced.

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Also, general storylines are written well in advance; what happened in any of the patches up to this point was already decided and in production when 7.0 launched. It's not a response or "pandering" to anything, just them making a decision you personally happen to not like.

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I said it feels like pandering. It comes out of nowhere, has no reason to be the case and has no bearing on what comes after. It could have easily been rewritten into the story after 7.0 in the months since DT's release.

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Given the hate a certain segment of the gaming population gave to Wuk Lumat contrasted with her continued central presence in 7.3, I have zero doubts whatsoever that they had the absolute courage to tell the story they wanted to tell. If they were "appealing to haters," Wuk Lumat would've been out the door, not front-and-center.

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It's disingenuous to say WL's continued appearance in the patches means the devs did not allow feedback to influence the story, considering how drastically her role was reduced and how significantly she was sidelined compared to 7.0.

I think 7.3 msq wise has been the best patch since 6.0, but the bar was pretty low so it's not surprising. The Shale and Geode stuff and the further fleshing out of Oblivion would have been really good in patch 7.1 or 7.2 but being in 7.3 it feels like it comes too little too late. Still it's better than nothing. Only real issue is that Sphene being queen again kinda flouts against the message of moving on from the past, which is pretty bad from a thematic point of view, since it goes against the point DT is trying to make. Same with LM, but I like the conclusion of giving back the memories at least. I also feel like the conclusion to Necron was a little too anime. It's FFXIV so of course it's going to be a little anime, but I feel like past expansions would have more readily showed the consequences of summoning an avatar of death. In past expansions, Sphene's talk-no-jitsu would definitively have failed, since that's not how primal tempering works at all and her character would be forced to grow from that failure while commenting on it's horror. The climax also didn't feel like it had as much weight to it, which is understandable in that the foundation is really weak. I hope it continues to rise in quality.

More interesting camerawork was pretty good though, and the puzzle segment while far too easy is a nice step in diversifying how one goes through the MSQ. Since it's really easy to look up answers I hope they don't get afraid to go hard with the puzzles in future.

I feel like a lot of problems with Dawntrail's MSQ were also present in 6.1 - 6.5, but because of the post patch format and faster plot development, the more base structural issues largely weren't noticed by most people becuase there was just enough to keep people going. Zero also sucks up a lot of the narrative, but because of both her introverted personality, allowing more screentime for other characters and much more interesting character background, as well as the mandatory downtime in between patches, it was much more palatable to go through. For example, the 6.1 - 6.5 story is filled to the brim with Zero *tips hat* "What is friendship?" moments that just really bring down her character, which we see repeated with Wuk Lamat's constant "I love peace and friendship" speeches in 7.0. I bet if Wuk was the 6.1-6.5 character and Zero was the 7.0 expansion main character people would be so much harsher on her and more accepting of Wuk Lamat.

My hopes for 7.4 and 7.5 is a good buildup of intrigue and a return to the more grounded style of writing we had back in HW, SB, and ShB, especially post 8.0. I hope the 7.5 trial is at least original to FFXIV. I feel like depending on the context the 7.4 trial being a reference can work so I'm not too bugged on that one, but since the 7.5 trial is very likely to be related to Calyx/the new villains/the next expansion as a way to hype them up/introduce them narratively, I think it really would be best if it stood up on it's own two feet instead of relying on past FF to hype it up.


I'd also like to see the ff references not be so blatant in the story. People have been predicting Necron as the final trial since we learned it's an ff9 themed expansion with a theme of death, and lo and behold, the final boss of DT is Necron and it's just a bog standard trial with no cool standout part. It fails to live up to the narrative legacy we've seen in the 3.3, 4.3, 5.3 and 6.0 trials. 5.3's trial also feels does a much better job of melding into the story and it felt like the legacy of the character was used to further enhance the story rather than being please clap becuase you recognise Necron. I feel DT somewhat relies too heavily on the references to carry it's weight, and it's one of the reasons the MSQ lacks any standout moments on the level of past expansions, not counting the bizarre downgrade in writing quality we started seeing in 6.1 onwards..

I do think post 8.0 we should just bunk with the Students of Baldesion as the new big group, since shard-hopping does sound more up their alley, with the scions as occasional allies if it makes sense from a narrative perspective (Looking at you Alphinaud and Alisaie's epic Dawntrail contributions), but this is more of a personal hope and not a must have or game bad haha. Especially since the scions more immediatly likely to stick around anyway would be Krile and G'raha, so at that point why not? I think it'd help make things feel a bit more new and fresh flavour wise even if in reality it doesn't really mean much for a long while.

I also hope for 7.5 or 8.0 we get an Answers style cinematic (Though it doesn't need to be as catastrophic an event) to set expectations and hype for the next part of the story. I feel like more than anything that'd do a lot to revitalise interest in the game and to show us how confident the writing team is in their new direction. Especially with how Endwalker harkens back to Answers for payoff.

That and I hope they actually bother with 8.0's alliance raid story becuase damn would I be disappointed if I had been waiting for Echoes of Vana'diel. And a return of the Trial series would be greatly appreciated, though I dare not hope.

It's crazy how low the bar is

Okay, now that I've finished 7.3, yea, it was much better than DT overall, and better than 7.1 or 7.2. Sphene gets fleshed out more, Calyx finally shows behind the mask a bit "next TIME? How long did I plan this???!" was a great moment lol. Shale was a standout for sure, they made good progress on making her actually seem like a friend, but didn't quite get there. Geode was good as well. Honestly seeing flashes like that, that remind me of Lyna from Shadowbringers makes me wish for a good amount of time away from the Scions proper. Time to let other characters grow and build a relationship with the WoL.

The elephant in the room is the same elephant that it always has been, Ascians, but depending on how they play this, it could work. Part of the problem I see though is the WoL is just too OP at this point to take these villains seriously. Calyx kept saying " I have your measure " and it was sort of just a joke. Oh you do? Oh look, it's another Primal..that's new. They need to focus more on hurting people around WoL, and problems that can't just be killed. Calyx did some of it, but it was a very neutered version of the end times in Endwalker.

I have some hope though after 7.3. I laughed some, got choked up some, got pumped up some (seeing WoL actually DO SOMETHING in a cutscene anyone???).

Keep improving from here SE.

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Originally Posted by Exmo

That's the original state I'm taking about. Gossan literally says "the shape of it government and nation will need to change considerably", followed by "but not in any meaningful way because we'll still have two rulers and one of them is as close to the old one as we can possibly get."

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Ah, I got the impression you meant "original" as in "original Sphene-era Alexandria" which is the oldest version we know. Personally, I would still say adding the council/parliament to complement the monarchy is a significant change. Acceptance and "moving on" from something doesn't mean abandoning each and every aspect of it completely. In fact, part of it is that it's still there with you in a way.

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The opinion of cowards and the media illiterate. The zone was a mausoleum for the lost and forgotten. Now it's back to being a theme park, because some players couldn't bear to experience a sense of loss, contrary to the story they had experienced.

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I truly feel sorry for you if you get this worked up over a video game. Doubly so if you've managed to convince yourself that your own take on something must absolutely be correct and reality couldn't possibly be anything different. :\

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I said it feels like pandering. It comes out of nowhere, has no reason to be the case and has no bearing on what comes after. It could have easily been rewritten into the story after 7.0 in the months since DT's release.

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It's been the course set since Endless Calyx appeared in 7.2, and flows directly from the way Endless Sphene acted in 7.0. It's okay for you to feel a certain way about it - I'm just pointing out to you why that take is probably not accurate.

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It's disingenuous to say WL's continued appearance in the patches means the devs did not allow feedback to influence the story, considering how drastically her role was reduced and how significantly she was sidelined compared to 7.0.

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This is the comment that makes me scratch my head the most. Drastically reduced role? Sidelined? Say what? Except for the very beginning of the questline that starts in the Backroom before she joins us, WL is everywhere. And throughout the ending? Big fight? Wuk Lumat is the one saving the day just like in 7.0. Fight finishes and we're celebrating or looking ahead? Nope - we're concerned about if Wuk Lumat is okay. Sphene's volunteers to turn on one of the terminals in Living Memory? Nope - WL appears and says she should do it instead. Like, seriously. I've been a fan of WL, so most of those didn't annoy me, but I really have trouble taking seriously a claim that she was sidelined here...she's everywhere and taking the spotlight in almost all the key moments. Again.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

I truly feel sorry for you if you get this worked up over a video game. Doubly so if you've managed to convince yourself that your own take on something must absolutely be correct and reality couldn't possibly be anything different. :\

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Sounds like you think "getting worked up" means understanding the text. I get the impression you're one of the people who NG+ to make Living Memory back into the golden city, and you're resistant to analysis that makes you culpable.

I'm just here sharing my opinion. You started arguing against me that it's wrong, so please don't act like I'm the one shutting down your opinion.

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Originally Posted by Exmo

The opinion of cowards and the media illiterate. The zone was a mausoleum for the lost and forgotten. Now it's back to being a theme park, because some players couldn't bear to experience a sense of loss, contrary to the story they had experienced.

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It isn't exactly as it was. They kept the normal sky. When it was turned off, it could be seen as a reflection of how the Alexandrians completely forgot those they lost. It's back on now but much more muted, and could be seen to reflect how the Alexandrians have embraced remembering those they lost. Thinking about someone you've lost isn't always a sad thing. There are happy memories, too. And now the zone has become a true Living Memory.

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Originally Posted by Exmo

The opinion of cowards and the media illiterate. The zone was a mausoleum for the lost and forgotten. Now it's back to being a theme park, because some players couldn't bear to experience a sense of loss, contrary to the story they had experienced.

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I think Living Memory's new form does fit the storytelling; Living Memory is basically a representation of Alexandria's relationship to their past. It was originally unnatural and wrong, then dead and neglected, and now it's basically alive and healthy. In fact, it's current form appears to be a mix of it's previous two; the NPCs are still gone, parts of it are still grey electrope, and the weather's isn't 'nostalgia' anymore.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

It isn't exactly as it was. They kept the normal sky. When it was turned off, it could be seen as a reflection of how the Alexandrians completely forgot those they lost. It's back on now but much more muted, and could be seen to reflect how the Alexandrians have embraced remembering those they lost. Thinking about someone you've lost isn't always a sad thing. There are happy memories, too. And now the zone has become a true Living Memory.

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I didn't say it's back to how it exactly was before, I said it's back to being a theme park. Scratch the surface. The pleasantly colourful courtyards are a facade, a light illusion projected to give the impression of nostalgia, a facsimile of a facsimile. To say that this zone now represents the comfort one feels through acceptance of the grieving process, is to also say this comfort is also a lie. I doubt the story wants to communicate that meaning.