PLD viable for speed runs?

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Originally Posted by Stufoo

The most irony ever. Hey Ace, have you beaten either dungeon yet?

It's not the healer's fault you're getting slammed with breaths in inappropriate gear and they can't heal you fast enough. Get some hp buffer for Chim (def is fine on princess, NOT CHIMERA) and learn to use your abilities to mitigate instead of relying on minimal gains from DEF gear carrying you through an easy fucking pansy boss like princess.



He is the paladin that dies a lot and you've made the correct call. He's pretty stupidly obstinate about things so I don't think paladin will ever click for him.

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this statement is laughable, If i get "slamed' by breaths then you get raped, you realy think all that hp makes a lick of diffrence with surviving magic attacks? I have tanked Chimera plenty to know he only dose magic attack 1/3 of the time he attacks wich means if your damage mitigation is at low end of the spectrum then you are making yourself MORE vunerable to the magic attacks that only complement the damage done by physical attacks, kinda hypocritical to say I rely heavly on my healers especially if your one to stack HP, stacking hp is an open atmitance to saying you dont care for damage mitigation as you think thats only the WHMs job. Sorry if I dont get all excited and turn into a horse's ass with my comments, dont want to take your job on the forums

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

I can vouch for Ace that damage done by spirits is affected by your current HP levels (amount or percentage I'm not sure), I cannot however confirm (at the moment) that having a higher hp pool would yield more potential damage with Spirits.

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Agreed, hp affects SW dmg. The only part I am confused on(as well as many others) is whether it's based off current hp total period(which would also make brd BV pretty potent for us) or if its based on total hp in relation to current hp aka % of your max.

Back on topic, this is all about hate controll correct? simple answer, stack mind and spam fast blade > flat blade combo. this complements your tank well, only bad thing about this one is it dosent work well on chimera as the safest place to take him is on the side. HOWEVER, i found by waiting for chimera to proc next magic attack, running to the rear and then doing the def down and rage of halone combo, this makes up for some of the threat build on fast blad to flat blade combo, either way, chimera is tougher then most mobs to keep hate on but is completly doable if blms do their part . If you insist on tanking chimera from the front , well I wont say anything negative about it , because if your doing soo successfully then you are faster on the keys then I and I salute you for that. I like the side as it gives more security from taking damage from magic attcks due to action lock. oh and I would only proc the combo in the rear but then imdiatly run to the side once its been proced.

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Originally Posted by Raze

You do realize there is a spell check on forums right?

Yeah, mentioning that spirits has a HP modifier, that makes me not understand the mechanics. Because, it would seem to me that if you had a higher base HP that each hit by chimera(or whoever) would decrease by a smaller percent (I know you love those percentages!). I realize chimera hits pretty decently hard, but realistically if you're doing your job you should be able to tank it, with it glued to you, HP belt or not, you'd need a decent enmity build to even make a difference if you get a rotation down that doesn't end you face down in dirt. And btw it sounds like you play with a lot of PLDs who die a lot so I'll be taking your opinion with a grain of salt and discontinue talking to you ^^

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OK lets say you took 2/3 more damage then me, wich you likely do. and i have 1/4 less hp then you, then in terms of percentage I have the advantage on keeping my hp pool more full. again your logic fails here.

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Originally Posted by Raze

First it's enmity.... then it's spirits within with a high % HP.... now I'm supposed to be put in place by you having a LOW HP %? I'm going to take a wild guess here and say you're terrible at the game, and you need to take classes in math/common sense/manners.

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Not coming to Ace's defense, however the priority stats vary depending on who you talk too and your going to hear alot of varying opinions. Most do discount the defense route due to the way that D-level fucks with it so much and so few could actually build up enough worthwhile defense/VIT to reach the potential caps on mobs like Ifrit, so in a sense yes it's doable, albeit difficult without some solid x3/x4 melds. Enmity/HP in a way is much easier to find and has more options in different slots (Weapons, Belt, etc.) than def. (Body, Shield) or VIT (Weap, Body), but technically you could have the best of both worlds because HP goes into damn near everything, can put Enmity our belt and weapons so there's only about 200-300 hp lost in choosing the DEF/VIT setup.

Nah man I totally agree with you (I put enm on belt and HP melds on shield and legs, hoping for militia!). Just the idea that one would want more HP so that they can get hit harder is sort of odd. I thought that's what all them damage mitigation tools did lol ^^ Personally I tweak stuff around until I'm comfortable with it and there's a million ways to do it, but some people just need to rely on numbers to reassure themselves they're good at the game I suppose.

Person 1 >> That dude just died.
Person 2 >> But did you see his max HP? EXTREEEMEEEEE!

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Originally Posted by Tman

Agreed, hp affects SW dmg. The only part I am confused on(as well as many others) is whether it's based off current hp total period(which would also make brd BV pretty potent for us) or if its based on total hp in relation to current hp aka % of your max.

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I fiddled around with this a bit on Old Six-Arms and Gluttonous Gertrude before logging tonight. I took off my Cobalt Gauntlets and Celata (there's a reason I'm mentioning this) and my HP was about 3090 when equipping the Militia Gauntlets and Armet my HP topped around 3270 with a deviance of 180hp. Using Non crits as a basis my Spirits Within were hitting GG for around 1600 and OSA for roughly 1550 with the Militia Armet/Gauntlets equipped. W/o Spirits was hitting GG for around 1500 and OSA for 1450ish, so your maximum (current) HP amount DOES affect the damage dealt with Spirits, so having more HP = more potential damage.

However, my DD stats had a large deviance of 37 less STR and 23 less MND without my normal Cobalt Celata/Gauntlet gear. The reason this is important to note is when using spirits on OSA I noticed my numbers were far less consistent actually having some Spirits hit for 1300 and others for 1600, while numbers on GG were pretty consistent probably due to lower defense than OSA.

When I'm in my usual full DD setup (roughly 3150 HP) Spirits hit GG for roughly 2100, and OSA for 1700 with solid consistency.

So it appears while even just having a slightly larger amount of Max HP give great returns on Spirits Within, your STR/MND still appears to still have a major impact on the weaponskill calculations as well as maintaining consistent Spirits numbers on mobs with higher defense.

Consistency is definitely my biggest culprit on dmg fluctuations on anything outside of primals or bosses. I have yet to try any form of stat stacking for dmg output yet, so as Ace stated our compared SW's showed me doing less sometimes. My guess is due to my lower floor, or rather not meeting stat cap.

I do wonder if stacking hp such as I have in the past, if this could in turn raise my floor even though my stats are not capped, or would this just give a bigger potential fluctuation by raising my max potential?

I see now that while my theoretical dps from SW has a higher potential with max hp, it may be out-weighed by a lower average with better consistency since most bosses outside of primals tend to go down faster.

Good food for thought none the less

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

I fiddled around with this a bit on Old Six-Arms and Gluttonous Gertrude before logging tonight. I took off my Cobalt Gauntlets and Celata (there's a reason I'm mentioning this) and my HP was about 3090 when equipping the Militia Gauntlets and Armet my HP topped around 3270 with a deviance of 180hp. Using Non crits as a basis my Spirits Within were hitting GG for around 1600 and OSA for roughly 1550 with the Militia Armet/Gauntlets equipped. W/o Spirits was hitting GG for around 1500 and OSA for 1450ish, so your maximum (current) HP amount DOES affect the damage dealt with Spirits, so having more HP = more potential damage.

However, my DD stats had a large deviance of 37 less STR and 23 less MND without my normal Cobalt Celata/Gauntlet gear. The reason this is important to note is when using spirits on OSA I noticed my numbers were far less consistent actually having some Spirits hit for 1300 and others for 1600, while numbers on GG were pretty consistent probably due to lower defense than OSA.

When I'm in my usual full DD setup (roughly 3150 HP) Spirits hit GG for roughly 2100, and OSA for 1700 with solid consistency.

So it appears while even just having a slightly larger amount of Max HP give great returns on Spirits Within, your STR/MND still appears to still have a major impact on the weaponskill calculations as well as maintaining consistent Spirits numbers on mobs with higher defense.

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that makes sense. i guess my stance on this would have to stay the same tho. the obvious reason would be consitancy vs the chance for high numbers. second reason would be, it seems the hp boost dosent give efficient amount of dps output to justify a all HP build. Where some people may see 50 damage as a nice boost, as a tank , I do not. In order for a tank to keep hate per dps they must put out at LEAST the same numbers as their dds and then let vokes and abilities take them comfortably above the dds in enmity. I dont think PLD will ever reach these numbers even if you build it for DD purposes. That being said, ofcourse anytime i get the opertunity to increase dps without sacraficing defensive stats, I take full advantage, sadly tho, I keep blowing up Giantsgall swords >< , I just cant give up the double melded winglet with 34 vit on it :/. but when that double meld lands, gona have fun with it! Regaurdless I seem to do fine with hate on turtleback with my current set up, clearing the island with 5-10 mins to spare on avg seems like a decent record. Anyways ty for testing and posting your results. very inlightening, maybe one day se will give us def/hp or vit/hp materia for every slot :p but if their plans go through we may have no choice but to triple stack by mixing materias anyways lol.

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Originally Posted by Raze

Nah man I totally agree with you (I put enm on belt and HP melds on shield and legs, hoping for militia!). Just the idea that one would want more HP so that they can get hit harder is sort of odd. I thought that's what all them damage mitigation tools did lol ^^ Personally I tweak stuff around until I'm comfortable with it and there's a million ways to do it, but some people just need to rely on numbers to reassure themselves they're good at the game I suppose.

Person 1 >> That dude just died.
Person 2 >> But did you see his max HP? EXTREEEMEEEEE!

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hmm, sounds like we agree on one thing at least, stacking hp soo you can take a heavier hit dose sound ass backwards to me aswell, BUT some people make it work, and I wont put em down for it.

But yeah having 5k hp , even tho it looks cool, dosent seem to serve a tank well when your mitigation is low. As far as defense gose tho, I can prosmise you , it is infact not broken, maybe nerfed against bosses but what isnt? either way, stacking def is no waist , I have yet to meet a whm who said " your realy hard to keep alive".

magic attacks are gona hit tanks hard reguardless, if you take two tanks , one stacking hp and one stacking def, both take 600 damage from a magic attack, then that is the amount of damage the whm has to cover in order to get the tank back to cap hp is the same. Where you are correct in saying that the tank with more hp at that point has a higher % of hp bar, by the same token, the tank with more def/vit is getting hit for less throughout 70% of the fight making it alot easier for the healers to keep hp at cap, one crit cure every magic attack certainly beats spam cures the entire fight because of low damage mitigation. then take into consideration the typical 2-4 hits a tank takes before the magic attack, if I take 200 damage where you take 400 damage, multiply that by 2 then add the 600 damage from magic. the 400 hp i save put me well above you in the % of hp bar by far.

also, not sure about you, but my ageious boon returns 750 hp every time it procs, 750 hp is a higher % of the bar if that bar is lower in numbers then if they were higher, making it easier for me to maintain cap HP then a tank with much higher hp. making the chance of me landing harder Spirits combos more likely. Its more logical then most give me credit for.