Dawntrail graphics update is very disappointing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gortys

The irony of telling people to not share opinions based on literally nothing on a public forum. Do you work for SE? Were you intimately involved in the decisions of how to release the graphics patches?

---

No, I was telling you not to just up and insult strangers based on nothing. Don’t give me that nonsense. Just keep your insults to yourself! There’s no irony here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by remiff

This is not a trick question, it is simply a fact that whether they release the full graphical update or not, it makes absolutely no difference because it is simply an HD texture I have said it before and I repeat it, the developers have told us this for already 2 years and we knew what to expect with concrete examples on various PLLs.

They repeated it to us constantly, and yet no one complained about the graphical update and its phased implementation.

People were generally happy, and yet everything was as clear as crystal in the explanations.

Whether it is complete or not at release, why is it a problem since it is just a texture pack and some reworked weather/shadow/light effects?

---

I showed this gif on page 2 of this very thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cheapshot

https://i.imgur.com/6JxiItT.gif

---

I’ve never seen a HD texture pack change the whole geometry of a face before. What they showed us at panels was in many cases nothing like what we got. And even if it was simply a “texture pack” update, why would rolling it out finished vs unfinished and bit by bit not matter? Why have you simply decided no one was concerned about a phased implementation. Anecdotally? And why would it matter when what we received didn’t align with what we were shown and peoples expectations weren’t met by the first phase to begin with? If even splitting the work into phases didn’t allow them to produce the quality we expected, why shouldn’t we feel that they should have taken more time before releasing it? Why wouldn’t people who weren’t concerned initially not be entitled or inclined to reevaluate their opinions? This is all pretty natural. I’m sorry but you’re not really making a very cohesive argument.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by remiff

I am not defending them, I am simply repeating what they have been telling us for the past 2 years.
I never said that the graphical update was completely successful, and I never said there were no issues
—I actually pointed that out in my previous message.

We simply already knew what to expect, it's not like they hadn't shown us examples from the beginning.
Yes, some features of the characters and races didn't turn out 'successful,' but they will certainly be corrected someday.

They made a statement after the complaints about the benchmark release,
saying that they would work on improving the characters before the release of Dawntrail and afterward.

---

The thing is that we clearly didn't know what to expect. I was confident the graphics update would be all good because we had a ton of PR shoved down our throats.

In the end, we only got to see character update previews a total of three times during the entirety of Endwalker, and only on select faces. Usually the Face 1 option.

They told us we'd see them every step of the way during the 10-year anniversary stream. What we got was a few still images in ideal lighting in Old Sharlayan at 3/4th angle views. And, what's worse, when you actually looked closely at the models from the EU fanfest compared to the first benchmark, you could see they hadn't changed at all in that time.

They told us twice that they would keep character impressions as close as possible. What we got now is certainly not the case for many, many options.

A dedicated JP player in their forums managed to dig up an interview about downgrading the models from 1.0 -> ARR, and how they had aid from a CN team and gave them very strict and precise guidelines on each detail for the model adjustments.

They were clearly successful in keeping the impression the same then, because people have been comparing 1.x and 2.x models for years, and the only differences are their textures and polygon count, not their facial features. I'm not going to theorize why they weren't able to do that for 6.x -> 7.x, but it's confusing and feels bad.

Instead of addressing that they clearly failed a fair chunk of the playerbase, we just get more PR. The lighting is ass in the first benchmark? Oh, that only affects the character screen! Ignore the fact that it's present in the benchmark test itself--the thing that serves as an example of the gameplay--and is also present in all of our current (at the time) image and video previews!

The housing lighting update for 7.05 is also definitely just another thinly veiled general lighting update. They just refuse to be upfront and it sucks.

I mean, I'm also choosing to believe they'll continue updating characters through 7.x patches, but it's hard for me to not feel really bad for all the users who feel the need to hide their character's face or unsub because they lucked out far worse in the "upgrade". It'd be nice to get an official acknowledgement and not more PR to ease some concerns.

I know you're tryin' to keep people calm about it, and that's fair. But, I mean, they didn't even communicate when Hrothgar ears were missing. Yes, they decided that was apparently worth it for the new hairstyles, but that just seemed extremely out of character for their usual quality control? People had to talk about it for four months only for them to silently fix it in the next main patch...

That's kind of awful. Why not give them a single dedicated post to let them know they're working on it? It all feels similar to then, but on a much larger scale. They need to address the situation again and honestly outside of a footnote.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by remiff

I don't understand how people can complain about a graphical update that was announced as incomplete, as it will continue through patches 7.x-8.x, etc. Moreover, they already made it clear from the start what to expect.

---

They made it sound like Dawntrail would have the update and older content and NPCs would come later.

Lots of things in Dawntrail are pixelated and look bad.

We don't have a very clear idea of what is done and what's being worked on. We can probably speculate that gear sets with two dye channels are done, yet some of them still have pixelated textures. This makes it very reasonable to complain despite the graphics update being incomplete.

I miss 1.0 moving clouds... https://cdn.betterttv.net/emote/5e0f...b8a489/1x.webp

I'm under the impression that Dawntrail was released too early, I think that juggling graphical updates with a full expansion story wasn't a good idea. Obviously I'm not the boss, this is what Yoshi-P thought was best for his team, but it just feels like not enough time and effort went into even the first iteration of this update.

Speaking strictly character graphics - I followed conversation closely during the Benchmark period and noticed that not much of the feedback was touched upon outside of very universal problems like the Miqo'te/Lalafell teeth issues or the few minor adjustments. There are still things that were not touched since the April benchmark, faces that still look completely different, odd changes that still remain (not to mention the scary facial expressions). Of course, April-June is not a lot of time but following that transparent statement released on the Lodestone, you would have thought that more attention would have been directed at that area of development.

As for environment, it definitely feels more poor to me. Outside of my personal distaste towards higher-poly realism over artistic graphics and speaking as a consumer rather than an individual - wouldn't it be considered wrong for me to look at 6.5 screenshots and think "pretty" but look at 7.0 screenshots and think "ugly"? Cutscenes have been altered to the point of a mood shift, shadows and lighting play in unnatural ways, skies aren't the same as before, fog is too heavy, the floors are too dark or really shiny, etc. I would be very satisfied with the old graphics, but obviously we won't get them back.

I believe that we need to receive some full transparency on the matter. Changing the graphics of a game that has existed for 10 years isn't a small thing, it's something that can irreversibly change the previously beloved and familar aesthetic. I understand that there may be some limits on what the development team can share with the public, but with the state it released in and with the way that things are right now, it feels like a level of trust has been lost.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cheapshot

I was pointing out very specific things about lighting in cutscenes and the detail and complexity of the new models. I said nothing about the MSQ, story, Wuk Lamat or even about the overall impression of the new graphics as a whole. Could you please go back through and re-read my post? I really feel like you just read my last statement and responded to it without reading anything else I said.

---

That last paragraph was not directed at you. :'D

Unless you think of yourself as "people".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gortys

You all would have whined that it was taking too long if they did wait. Have some self awareness.

---

In this community of whiny entitlement?
Good luck with that. :'D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doopliss

They were clearly successful in keeping the impression the same then, because people have been comparing 1.x and 2.x models for years, and the only differences are their textures and polygon count, not their facial features. I'm not going to theorize why they weren't able to do that for 6.x -> 7.x, but it's confusing and feels bad.

---

Most likely due to the new rigging.
Meshes may or may not work well with a specific way of rigging the bones for animations. So changes around the mouth would be something I'd expect.

Though that does not explain changes to the nose on Miqo Face 4, since that does not move during animation. Or the shiny lips that now always look like chars wear gloss.
These were most definitely aesthetic design choices.

Ultimately, one needs to keep one thing in mind: this is THEIR game, not ours. If they think "it looks better this way, closer to our original design intent", we're SOL and just have to deal with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Granyala

That last paragraph was not directed at you. :'D

Unless you think of yourself as "people".


In this community of whiny entitlement?
Good luck with that. :'D
Most likely due to the new rigging.
Meshes may or may not work well with a specific way of rigging the bones for animations. So changes around the mouth would be something I'd expect.

Though that does not explain changes to the nose on Miqo Face 4, since that does not move during animation. Or the shiny lips that now always look like chars wear gloss.
These were most definitely aesthetic design choices.

Ultimately, one needs to keep one thing in mind: this is THEIR game, not ours. If they think "it looks better this way, closer to our original design intent", we're SOL and just have to deal with it.

---

If people followed that way of thinking "It's their way of doing it and they do what they want"

This game would be dead by now, I hope you know that, the reason why we are still playing FFXIV as of today is because people complained back then in 1.0, and that's what created what we play today.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Granyala

Meshes may or may not work well with a specific way of rigging the bones for animations. So changes around the mouth would be something I'd expect.

Though that does not explain changes to the nose on Miqo Face 4, since that does not move during animation. Or the shiny lips that now always look like chars wear gloss.
These were most definitely aesthetic design choices.

---

They're clearly still trying to make old facial animations work on these current models, so the meshes not working well wouldn't make sense. They're just a different contour, and every model is supposed to accommodate for 4-6 different shapes for each facial feature option.

It's also definitely possible to change some of these shapes, as they have managed to do so for some (♂ Viera Face 3 Mouth, ♀ Highlander Face 2 Eyes as a couple of examples) between benchmarks and release. Things just don't add up for that theory.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Granyala

Ultimately, one needs to keep one thing in mind: this is THEIR game, not ours. If they think "it looks better this way, closer to our original design intent", we're SOL and just have to deal with it.

---

This is falling for PR, and a sentiment I will never find agreeable regardless. They gave their customers an expectation multiple times. Thousands of customers who pay $12-$14 monthly and $40-$60 every two years. This isn't even including all of the money they definitely make off of their cash shop. We have every right to criticize.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SophiaDL

If people followed that way of thinking "It's their way of doing it and they do what they want"

This game would be dead by now

---

Nonsensical hyperbole.

Giving feedback is necessary and encouraged by the DEVs.
Expecting them to act on every feedback to your personal liking, on the other hand, is misguided and will only result in personal disappointment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doopliss

This is falling for PR, and a sentiment I will never find agreeable regardless. They gave their customers an expectation multiple times. Thousands of customers who pay $12-$14 monthly and $40-$60 every two years. This isn't even including all of the money they definitely make off of their cash shop. We have every right to criticize.

---

You do realize that (if we leave the shoddy DLSS implementation out of it, which is what I see more complaints about than "muh character's nose") only an absolutely tiny segment of G-Posing hardcores really has problems with this GFX update, right?

You need to realize that e.g.: me disliking the new shiny lips, is a super tiny nitpick, compare to the scope of the GFX update / whole game.
The probability of SE humoring me and changing that (for all players nonetheless) is practically -0-.

Put our complaints into perspective and adjust your expectations, is all I am saying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Granyala

You do realize that (if we leave the shoddy DLSS implementation out of it, which is what I see more complaints about than "muh character's nose) only an absolutely tiny segment of G-Posing hardcores really has problems with this GFX update, right?

Put our complaints into perspective and adjust your expectations, is all I am saying.

---

I put my complaint into the perspective of them going: "We promise to keep your characters as close as possible" twice in a row. Also in the perspective of Koji going, on stage, "We don't want you to log in and think oh...ew... they look like that?" aloud. But I can tell you don't really care when you're ready to throw in a bad faith argument like 'muh nose' out there.

Anyway, do you have stats for your claim? I'd like to see them. Not once have I mentioned a majority, and even if it isn't a majority, it doesn't matter. They didn't fulfill the expectations of a lot of customers, so much to the point it's causing a lot of people who would rather never post to the forums--myself included--to speak up in hopes of being heard.

And, if you can't get any stats and decide to just throw in the "people who are happy won't complain!" argument for the upteenth time; you do realize many people who do have complaints would still rather not engage with the community in this space (and I can't blame them, it's embarrassing and sucks) and often just silently hope for things to get fixed, right? It's a normal human reaction. So maybe try adjusting your perspective a little bit, too.