Will there be SOLO queue for PVP in Dawntrail

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

It's fair because everyone has the choice to group up, to make calls, and to play a strong job.

You're free to not do these things, but not doing so is handicapping yourself. If you're wanting to win, you can't really complain when not taking advantage of these things.

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Can I complain on the grounds that, when there is one premade on the field, the matches are insufferably tedious?

I'd also suggest that in a mode in which the vast majority of players want to queue solo, it's a little disingenuous to tell them they should party up else they deserve to get stomped. I understand your grand plan is to have more premades and commanders on the field, and you may ultimately succeed simply because you drive the rest of us away. Whether that is "fair" or not is subjective, I guess.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

Aa for if it's desirable... generally, I think so. I want people to work more closely together and improve their gameplay so we can move on to new strategies and tactics.

I don't think premades are incredibly strong. I think it is the playerbase that is incredibly weak. They die over and over to the same setup, and don't start wondering how to stop it, counter it, or use it themselves.

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It ain't getting any stronger when a talented WAR spends her time fishing, honey.

Here's my latest "thing that will never happen even though it's perfectly possible."

Raiders already travel from the other DCs to Aether. People on Dynamis who want to do just about anything have to travel. So exploit this fact to keep everyone happy. Specifically:

Aether FL continues to allow light parties.

Crystal and Primal are solo queue only.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I'd also suggest that in a mode in which the vast majority of players want to queue solo, it's a little disingenuous to tell them they should party up else they deserve to get stomped.

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It's also the mode where a large subsection don't care about winning or losing. If you do care about winning, then I think it's good advice to tell them to group up with like minded people. I'd also suggest talking with actual good players, reading up on my guide, learning all the jobs, along with a plethora of other things.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

It's also the mode where a large subsection don't care about winning or losing. If you do care about winning, then I think it's good advice to tell them to group up with like minded people. I'd also suggest talking with actual good players, reading up on my guide, learning all the jobs, along with a plethora of other things.

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Right this is a critical difference between us. I play to win, but winning isn't the most important thing for me in FL. If it was I'd join you when you make lfg posts. I'm assuming you'd be okay with me playing my best job (WAR), although I can manage AST. But why would I do that? It's not interesting to me. I really do regard it as equivalent to playing a single-player game with a cheat code (if not ethically, then in terms of the satisfaction I would derive from it).

There's a conflict here between "win at any cost" (the same mindset that gave us GC synching and 8-party abominations which have since been rightly banned), which currently expresses itself through light parties, and solo players who can only have an impact on a match in the absence of a premade. In order to enjoy the mode, I have to spend a lot of time not playing. All I'm asking for is a home for solo players.

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Originally Posted by Bunny_Girl

This is precisely why premade teams shouldn't be matched against non-premade teams.

There's a difference between you and me.

You're fine with exploiting the inexperienced to win. It's acceptable by my standards, but the more you win, the more players you scare away from participating in PvP mode in a long run.

As for me, I don't mind losing if it's satisfying. I want fairness and enjoyment for everyone in PvP, even in defeat.

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We're in 2 different worlds. Let me show you a piece of mines. (see lower comments)

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Here's my latest "thing that will never happen even though it's perfectly possible."

Raiders already travel from the other DCs to Aether. People on Dynamis who want to do just about anything have to travel. So exploit this fact to keep everyone happy. Specifically:

Aether FL continues to allow light parties.

Crystal and Primal are solo queue only.

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I'm pretty certain it's one or the other for all data centers...here's my gripe though. Whether it's vets and newbies, casual and hardcore, groupies and soloists, we for some reason can't seem to come to a middle ground. We already telling duos and other groupies who want to play CC together to either fill thy group or go to frontlines. If frontlines goes solo I'm pretty certain that Rival Wings will follow suit to make things 'fun and fair'. Do we just send the groupies to pve after changes? If so, I'm not sure what makes soloist any different than premades since in either scenario a group of people are being chased away.
I'll be fair here. I'm trying so hard not to become another Emet. I only see myself failing as time passes by. Sure, things got better with the removal of 8 man and being forced to freelance. However, my world was also torn apart in the process. I went from taking majority of my games serious to be told that I should play a different game mode for taking them serious, from being creative with how I help the team to being forced to group with just the zerg strategy, from raising a team on my own combatting the most dominant gc to praying to RNG that I have people willing to fight and not solely farming, from outsmarting certain premades in 24 to being forced to be at their mercy in 72. Despite all of these changes I still play trying to recapture that fun I once had. It's gettinging difficult though. Those who used to group 8 man, majority I don't see anymore. Those who enjoy CC that wanted to group with others, I hardly see these days. I would like to enjoy my games with others as a soloist, but with everything being pushed towards solos only it's getting more difficult to enjoy the victories I do get. It's getting difficult not to quit entirely. It's extremely gotten difficult making friends who also likes to pvp. The past journey was brutal. The rules were brutal. My first 100 games were 10-20-70. However, they was also where my best win rate was right before all of these bomb changes. I don't want anyone having to go through this. However, I do hate how badly the past is received. It was horrible. It wasn't that horrible though. That, to me, is just being overly exaggerated. To me..

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

Aa for if it's desirable... generally, I think so. I want people to work more closely together and improve their gameplay so we can move on to new strategies and tactics.

I don't think premades are incredibly strong. I think it is the playerbase that is incredibly weak. They die over and over to the same setup, and don't start wondering how to stop it, counter it, or use it themselves.

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If you would have said lazy I would have agreed with you. I've been seeing examples of that for 6 years now. Weak? No. Hard disagree. There's just not an incentive to try. While that isn't an acceptable excuse people do come and play frontlines for various reasons. You can't put the blame on everyone for how things are now. If you gave everyone an incentive to try then maybe games would improve overall. Finding that incentive is the tricky part. However, I think that should be doable in the forums...if folks are willing to find a middle ground.

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Originally Posted by Bunny_Girl

This is precisely why premade teams shouldn't be matched against non-premade teams.

There's a difference between you and me.

You're fine with exploiting the inexperienced to win. It's acceptable by my standards, but the more you win, the more players you scare away from participating in PvP mode in a long run.

As for me, I don't mind losing if it's satisfying. I want fairness and enjoyment for everyone in PvP, even in defeat.

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It's not inexperience, it's complacency. And explot? I don't know why people act like pressing your damage buttons at the same time is some unintended design when its been the winning strategy in pvp for 3 expansions.

I to can enjoy a balanced game, but I'd rather it be of strong, competent players, communicating and trying to outwit their opponents. Not some sort of disorganized mob of people who will not only not communicate, but scorn anyone who attempts to.

I'm starting to think yall would rather just have FL be filled with trust bots. At least then you can have a true solo que.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

It's not inexperience, it's complacency. And explot? I don't know why people act like pressing your damage buttons at the same time is some unintended design when its been the winning strategy in pvp for 3 expansions.

I to can enjoy a balanced game, but I'd rather it be of strong, competent players, communicating and trying to outwit their opponents. Not some sort of disorganized mob of people who will not only not communicate, but scorn anyone who attempts to.

I'm starting to think yall would rather just have FL be filled with trust bots. At least then you can have a true solo que.

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That's the last thing I'd want. I enjoy playing with other players, but on a level playing field. I've mentioned before, you cannot possibly know what current games without premades are like since you never queue solo. Sure, some of them are a clownfest. But many involve plenty of communication, flanking, baiting, and coordination. And they are far more interesting (to me) than those featuring premades.

You say you far prefer a game of strong, competent players. Me too. But just because you've brought three strong players with you doesn't impact the composition of the other 68! It does, however, drive some competent players away.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

It's not inexperience, it's complacency. And explot? I don't know why people act like pressing your damage buttons at the same time is some unintended design when its been the winning strategy in pvp for 3 expansions.

I to can enjoy a balanced game, but I'd rather it be of strong, competent players, communicating and trying to outwit their opponents. Not some sort of disorganized mob of people who will not only not communicate, but scorn anyone who attempts to.

I'm starting to think yall would rather just have FL be filled with trust bots. At least then you can have a true solo que.

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You presumably appreciate that the word "communicate" means the exchange of ideas between people right? From what I recall, there is no actual communication in your matches at all, largely because nobody else can get a word in edgewise due to your spam flood. That's not communication, it's one person issuing orders and the others either obeying or tuning you out.

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Originally Posted by Bunny_Girl

Perhaps we can implement the following queues:

Premade queue: exclusively for premade groups
Solo queue: exclusively for solo players
Express lane: for those indifferent to grouping

This way, players know exactly what they're queuing up for.

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I suspect even in Olivia's personal Utopia you'll never get enough premades to fill a match, but I can certainly see solo only and mixed, with express queue putting you in either.