I'm One Of The Filthiests Of Casuals And Even I Can See How Dumbdown FF14 Has Become!

Um you can't adjust the level 90 summons sizes or change them to just look like carbuncle, I find the full size summons get in the way of playing but that's my preference rather just use the carbuncle

I really dislike when people defend smn design by the volume in which it’s being played in high end content.

It’s not for any of the right reasons and the job is actively holding all ranged classes at gunpoint like a terrorist. But people will celebrate it because it isn’t shadowbringers SMN. Just bad mentality

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

It’s not for any of the right reasons and the job is actively holding all ranged classes at gunpoint like a terrorist. But people will celebrate it because it isn’t shadowbringers SMN. Just bad mentality

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To be fair, we don't KNOW the reasons. Anyone using this argument you are assumes the reasons, but has no proof to support them. For everyone you might say plays it because being "braindead" makes it easier to raid with, there could be 5 people that simply ENJOY playing it. We genuinely have no way to know. All we DO know is that it's very popular.

So the only conclusion we can make is the change increased people engaging with/playing it. Until you figure out a way to parse out why everyone's playing and determine which reasons are "the right" reasons to enjoy/play a thing, you really can't argue against it. What we do know is that the change increased people playing it from how many did before. That's it. We don't know the reasons, so we can't conclude they are "not for any of the right" ones.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Oh well, if it keeps the old Summoner peeps happy.

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Honestly, if I had a magic wand, what I'd do is add a class called Evoker and make it what old SMN was. That or Green Mage/Green Caller.

Leave SMN and SCH to be "for people that like easy stuff" (I guess?) and have something else to capture the "BLM, but with DoTs instead" playerbase that thematically makes sense for it. Much as people give it flack, Green Mage as a debuff/debilitating Job with some party utility would probably be right up the alley of people that actually enjoyed what old SMN had to offer.

Old SMN was not a SMN in ARR or HW at all. Until Bahamut in 4.0, it didn't actually have a single summon, and I don't recall in FF7 Cloud fighting for 2 minutes using a bunch of DoTs and a random assortment of disjointed abilities unrelated to each other to then instantly summon Knights of the Round at the 2 min (SB Baha) mark and then try to fit in as many oGCDs as he could within the next 10 seconds to maximize damage. I don't recall that from FF7. What I DO recall from FF7 was the instant cast Summons and shenanegans with 4x Magic and the Mime command. I'm old enough to remember in ARR people complaining about how SMN wasn't a Summoner and in HW feeling that building up to channeling a bit of Bahamut for Deathflare (FF16?) felt KINDof summoner-y, but not really; and then how excited people were in SB to actually finally get their first "real" summoner summon.

Most FF games, the summons are more like new SMN's Primals - fire and forget. Some had cast times (FFTactics), some did not. The "you control your summon" was only present in FFX of the mainline single player games as far as I can recall. 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 9 they were fire and forget things. FF8 was the only one I can remember having a specific travel time. 7 and 9 didn't even have cast times in their ATB systems. FF12 they follow you around like the Demis for a minute then leave with an ultimate (kind of the reverse of Baha/Phoe where you use their ultimate when they first arrive), FF13 was kinda like that but they were also transformers, and 15 were fire and forget but mostly random.

There's not any incarnation that was like old SMN, a DoT mage with a pet that once every 120/60 seconds summoned a bigger pet. I don't think that existed in any of the other FF games. None I can think of, at least.

That's why people say new SMN feels more like a SMN. It has both the FF3-7&9 big magic nuke component and it has the FF10/12 demi-minion component. For all the hate it gets, is the most faithful version in FFXIV's history to the actual Summoners in the series' history.

ARR/HW SMN was a WoW Warlock
SB SMN was a WoW Warlock with a bit of FF12 Summoner every two minutes.
ShB SMN was a WoW Warlock with a bit more FF12 Summoner every minute.
EW SMN is a Final Fantasy Summoner, a marriage of both the "fire and forget" summons of most of the series and of the "minion" summons of 10 and 12.

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Originally Posted by Snorky

Um you can't adjust the level 90 summons sizes or change them to just look like carbuncle, I find the full size summons get in the way of playing but that's my preference rather just use the carbuncle

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Whilst you cannot make them look like Carbuncles, you can 100% make them smaller;

/petsize "all" "small"

Replace small with medium or large (large is default, small makes them carbuncle sized). You can also change individual ones (info here: https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...d/ded8f6e43d6/).

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

I'm kind of tired of seeing things like "it's a real summoner now", the frequency of summoning doesn't make it any more or less of a summoner. if anything EW SMN is the biggest iteration of ruin mage we've had yet.

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ya apparently you werent a real summoner last xpac with bahamut and phoenix. only now that you press legos every 5 sec are u a real summoner!!

All the 6.0 Summoner has are fancy animations, everything else needs a complete rework.

Titan, Garuda, Ifrit don't contribute much strategically (they're no-brain),
even though mobility is something nice, here it feels unnecessary and seems outdated in the caster category,
(summoner 5.1 was overpowered, but it was highly mobile without unnecessary mobility).

Here, it almost seems to belong to the Physical Ranged DPS category; it's completely out of place.

Furthermore, the Carbuncle has been reduced to a useless figurine, etherflow management is no longer a true resource management, and you only need to save them to use 4 of them under Bahamut+searing light,
The rest of the gameplay needs a complete revamp, and personally, I believe it needs additional buttons, resources, and a reduction in the GCD between elemental summons because the gameplay is painfully slow, thoughtless, out of place in the caster category,
and especially incomplete.

Even at level 90, it feels like you're at level 60.

How do you know? you are an Archer lv 30

Don't play one then.

Well, most people disagree with you TC. Players generally like things easier, with the option for harder stuff. Which the game provides.

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

I really dislike when people defend smn design by the volume in which it’s being played in high end content.

It’s not for any of the right reasons and the job is actively holding all ranged classes at gunpoint like a terrorist. But people will celebrate it because it isn’t shadowbringers SMN. Just bad mentality

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Dancer was doing that long before Summoner did it, and still is. Nobody discusses that elephant in the room though.