The Venat Cutscene

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Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

Eorzean Encyclopedia Volume 1, Page 11, Primals, 3rd paragraph. Its explicitly stated in the most official lore SE has for the game.
"The aether required in the summoning and maintaining of the creatures corporeal form, will, without fail, draw overmuch from the surrounding environments life energy, turning once lush areas into wastelands and disrupting the very balance of the world itself."

Next time, try google.

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While I feel compelled to mention that the volumes in question are outdated and unreliable, I concur that it's not worth the risk, especially since that chapter of this story is over.

I would remind Necrotica that the Primal Solution has already been conceived, produced, and distributed en masse in the form of Porxies and Warding Scales. Aetheric Corruption is no longer a threat because future incidents can be stamped out by the grand companies and any tempered victims can be cured.

The main crisis around Alexander was specifically that it was such a colossal aether drain that it could kill the planet by going for a walk. It's literally in the game itself.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

The main crisis around Alexander was specifically that it was such a colossal aether drain that it could kill the planet by going for a walk. It's literally in the game itself.

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Alexander was constantly using aether to maintain a time loop though. Anyone using Louisoix's staff constantly would have the same effect. And he was the first Primal to actually go into the Aether drain. Every primal before that was a threat because of the danger they posed via brainwashing and actually just being a powerful force that threatens supremacy of the three kingdoms.

Ysayle as Shiva was not considered some threat to the world that would drain aether from the land killing everything. If she was I would hope the WoL would have killed her immediately instead of lettering her walk freely when at any point she could decide so summon Shiva and start killing everything around her via aether drain.

We even let Ramuh just chill in an alive state in ARR when we first learned of his summoning cause we were told he was not a threat. If primals just existing KILLS THE PLANET then that should not have been considered an option.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

Garlean Lies. Primals don't drain the land of aether etc. etc.

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Honey, baby, peach... The Scions themselves point out that Primals do just that over two dozen times before the end of ARR, and continue to mention it every other opportunity they get. It's that same link to the land that allows the Eden storyline to work. Because there's naturally a flow of aether between Primals and the land around them, by killing them, their aether seeps into/back into the land.

There's weird exceptions, like Susano. But by and large, until the Endwalker(muffled rage filled screaming)'s whole, "Oh yeah, nah man, Primals would be fine if they weren't summoned using those corrupt Ascians rituals..." all Primals everywhere require ambient aether, aether of the land/planet, in order to maintain their forms once summoned. (And hell, people require ambient aether to live normally, so it's likely that the greater the being, the greater their tax on the ambient aether).

It's not that they directly kill the planet. It's that they make it harder for life to grow/sustain itself. It's reason #2 for putting them down. #1 being the soul enslavement. The reason for letting Ramuh chill is that there was a lot of shit going on around the same time, and the Scions were like, "Maybe we can put him on the back burner for a moment cause we can only do so much."

As for Ysayle, she had the Echo and spoke of Hydaelyn, and she was an ally to our cause. She only resorted to her Shiva transformation when absolutely necessary, and it's always short lived (just like her, Q.Q). Had she elected to try and maintain her Shiva form long term, then yes, it would have drained the ambient aether and taxed the land.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

Ysayle as Shiva was not considered some threat to the world that would drain aether from the land killing everything. If she was I would hope the WoL would have killed her immediately instead of lettering her walk freely when at any point she could decide so summon Shiva and start killing everything around her via aether drain.

We even let Ramuh just chill in an alive state in ARR when we first learned of his summoning cause we were told he was not a threat. If primals just existing KILLS THE PLANET then that should not have been considered an option.

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Ramuh wasn't a priority threat at the time because there were other, much more aggressive primals knocking on our door, more specifically Ramuh doesn't leave his domain in the Sylphlands and doesn't aggressively convert "worshippers" from other denizens of the Twelveswood, so while his presence is certainly still harmful to the ecosystem because of how much ambient aether he guzzles to sustain himself he doesn't proactively threaten the citizens unlike the rest of them.

Ysayle is also a bit of an exception to rule, because she has the Echo and Blessing of Light so she doesn't temper herself when transforming, so the WoL doesn't kill her because she can change, which she does.

The thing is though... although the WoL could do the same thing, they never, ever would. The inherent risk of the experiment isn't worth whatever you think we stand to gain from the experience.

Just stop, this chapter (though it's more like a whole book) of the story is closed and over, we shouldn't tread that old ground.

I'm overall convinced that Necrotica's just that kind of 'quiet troll' you see sometimes: constantly saying things that are technically normal things to say that just happen to be disagreeable or frustrating, but saying them constantly with no regard for consistency or relevance, so that it pisses people off while no single statement is technically enough to trip any alarms.

Necrotica manages it mostly by being constantly just factually wrong enough to make controversial claims that they can claim they hold strongly, only to either shift to a completely different one or entirely disappear when people tell them such. This thread's a perfect example: When 'the Venat cutscene is evidence that she's mentally damaged/deluded' got shot down, they moved to 'it makes no sense why they showed us that scene', then to 'the WoL could become a primal', then 'primals draining the land is a lie', then 'Alexander was draining the land by a constant time loop and also Ramuh did nothing wrong'. All of these are easily refuted, but each one just led to another claim that's easily proved factually wrong that would make no sense for them to hold or bring up EXCEPT that it keeps us arguing with them.

I'm done with it, and I advise everyone else to be, too. They're just going to reply to someone with another two-sentence nonsense claim that you can very easily disprove, that serves no purpose but to keep us annoyed at them.

At this point there are enough exceptions to the rule of Primals draining aether at a speed great enough to kill the surrounding area I don\\'t think it can be assumed as a primary threat. 100% yes the brainwashing was a concern and still mostly is despite the availability of a cure and protections. Being pulled proof and having a doctor doesn\\'t mean you actively try and get shot.

Using the scions said so though is a horrible argument. The scions said the echo prevented tempering those liars. They also could not believe at first that Good King Moogle Mog XII (may his will be everlasting as he strike down his foes), was a primal. At that point they thought Primals were limited to just worshipped ditties. The scions are well educated, but they are not all knowing.

Looking at how long some primals can just hang around without damaging their environment (Ramuh did not even kill the plant life in his immediate vicinity) I would be more worried about Garlean technology causing global warming before a few primals would drain the land enough to cause lasting harm. With a few notable exceptions.

Can go back to the show don\\'t tell issue. If they made a point of having the areas where Primals get summoned become dead spots of no aether, that would make it very clear the danger they posed to the environment.

Cleretic you are a joy to have in any conversation.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

Using the scions said so though is a horrible argument. The scions said the echo prevented tempering those liars. They also could not believe at first that Good King Moogle Mog XII (may his will be everlasting as he strike down his foes), was a primal. At that point they thought Primals were limited to just worshipped ditties. The scions are well educated, but they are not all knowing.

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You need to remember that, above all else, this is a video game. The scions are only ever wrong if it is deemed necessary by the story writers for some effect, or due to future retcon. Otherwise, the Scions have been shown quite well employing the scientific method.

Being wrong is not in itself wrong when they are moving towards truth. And being wrong is not the same as being misleading or dishonest.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

If they made a point of having the areas where Primals get summoned become dead spots of no aether, that would make it very clear the danger they posed to the environment.

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*Gestures wildly at the place known as “The Burn”.

The Burn wasn't even a product of primal summonings, it was just more Allagan tech shenanigans that gave Solus/Emet-Selch a convenient excuse to start their nation's anti-eikon campaign...assuming he didn't orchestrate that intentionally as well considering his involvement with Allag.

Probably the largest scale case of a primal draining aether from the land was the business with Anima and the towers but even that wasn't having any readily discernable negative effects on the environment, though it is noted in the role quests that the Tower of Zot itself has altered the aether flows around Garlemald for the worse and that it would take a long while before things normalize.

Again: it was literally stated in the Alexander quests that it was draining aether at a prodigious rate when it moved, because a machine that goddamn big is ludicrously energy-inefficient to run. It's actually something true about real-world physics, it's one of the many reasons mecha wouldn't make sense in real life: even if it was theoretically a good design in every other way, the energy required to move a body that huge around on legs--especially two legs--is just far too much. In real life that'd mostly just mean they couldn't move very far or for very long without running out of power (weirdly, Evangelion was the one big mecha anime that stuck to that; the others mostly find a Minovsky particle-style workaround). But when we're dealing with it in the context of FFXIV's primals, particularly Alexander, it sucks up the aether it needs from everywhere else; the treasure of Seal Rock made it very capable of that, but we see other primals swinging it in ways that suggest that yeah, it's a ubiquitous thing, Alexander just needed up its intake because it's that goddamn huge. For the most part primals aren't around long enough for that to be a big problem by itself, but it is a known thing to be wary of; Ramuh was being quiet but was eventually on the docket, Alexander's sheer size made it alarming before anything else, and Anima (and the Towers that were part of it) actually was around long enough to have a measurable effect. It's just that usually OTHER parts of the primal recipe usually get dangerous before the aether drain does.

Time loops and paradoxes are not something that requires active energy to maintain in this setting (or in fact most settings, I think only Doctor Who does that, even then only sometimes); there was absolutely no mention of that, and indeed if that were true, then the actual end-of-story solution of Alexander locking itself in a time bubble would've made the problem WORSE, not BETTER.

But again: Necrotica is not raising these in good faith. I didn't bring these up because I don't think they're actually interested in learning or in having a dialog, they're just interested in keeping up an argument for the sake of annoying us. Everything I've said is very easily findable and answerable, but they probably know that, and are just grinding down our patience with ridiculous claims.