PVP PLD Cheese Problem

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absimiliard

"Melee are overpowered in frontlines."
Meanwhile, MCH: "Hehe delete button go brrr"

---

wew that 16k damage lb will surely have the melees shaking in their boots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kansene

cont.d:
And in this metaphor Yoshi-p and co are the judges going "Yeah one or two of the teams are just using their legs to run, but we decided using a motorbike is not against the rules so gg."
The cheese has a tendency to work, and not get countered. So if two approximately equally skilled teams clash, the one that also abuses pld the hardest comes out on top. And though our mileage may vary, I've rarely seen a third team being involved making much of a difference. Oftentimes because of simply poor decisions from one or two of the non-cheesing teams.
And I've rarely, if even ever, seen anyone trying to rally people through /a chat and coming up with strategies actually being listened to.
Maybe the US and EU server are just different in that regard though, I wouldn't know.

I guess what I'm trying to say with my nonsensical rambling is:
The cheese is a distasteful, unsportsmanlike, cheap, gimmicky, boring, and just thoroughly unlikeable mechanic that makes the game worse.
It has counters, but setting up those counters is a complicated, tedious chore that is almost guaranteed not to work with a group of randoms (anecdotally).
It can be botched, but I suspect that most cheesers work in coordinated teams of at least 2 people because I've seen it succeed almost unfailingly for entire days on end (gf was farming for 100 win mount, thank GOD she got it recently).
It can be made irrelevant by being incredibly superior in terms of battle prowess, but this requires your team (or both other teams if only one team is cheesing and they both pick up on it and get ticked off by it) to consist of better players than the cheesers. And even then, a bad team can get carried, or semi-carried at the very least, by this abuse. As previously stated I've seen teams just absolutely slingshot their way from a losing position to casually strolling through victory through suddenly hardcore cheesing with 6-7 paladins on their team.

TL;DR:
Unfun garbage. Not entering Onsal again. Bai. But thank you for the civil discussion.

---

I strongly agree on your statement. You can not expect random people try to set up some counter on some organized stuff. Just like PVE content, static vs party finder in savage or ultimate.
As I said, in my yesterday's onsal run, 6 PLD with tank lb, rush in. What can a bunch of random people do?
Based on SE's philosophy, we can play any class we want. But what now? we have to play something that counter the class?
This is just like the drama on PLD and WAR in P8S.

I will not play frontline until this stupid changes make, and strongly opposed on the current pvp skill system.

Noone should play Onsal on any other job then Pala. Don't play or play Pala. Maybe then they will see it. I don't get why this hasn't been bug fixed a month ago (at least).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BRVV

Noone should play Onsal on any other job then Pala. Don't play or play Pala. Maybe then they will see it. I don't get why this hasn't been bug fixed a month ago (at least).

---

My highest record from yesterday is 11 PLD from 3 teams. The game become how pro a PLD can cheese the flag, rather than fighting as a team. I just pretty much run around and alt tab in there. It is really stupid.

SE do not fix it, cuz they do not think is an issue at all.

Its BS and needs to be changed. And im extra salty as i end up 9/10 matches in teams without pala lol

I cant control others and i wont switch job again after the changes already forced me... all our skills are made for CC and not large scale, it sucks...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zabu

Agree, this is what i mean, it is casual content..... is not pvp frontline savage.
People do not understand coordinate 24 people where to go in frontline is already tough, coordinate what they should do?!! are you dreaming?

---

There seems to be the idea that "casual" should be equated with 'no effort" or " I don't need to communicate". This is PVP, you cannot memorize what is going to happen as in PVE.

If you have some people who have no idea of what to do on your team, that should be the case on every single team. Believe it or not a few or enough people who make an effort can make a major difference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SweetPete

Well if we’re jumping on paladin let’s jump on all melee. They are all ridiculously tough to kill now. Playing melee is the current cheese in frontlines.

---

I do agree with this as well. Usually I can easily kill melees with AST's Macrocosmos and MCH's Sniper... But now those don't do anything to them lol...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zabu

Agree, this is what i mean, it is casual content..... is not pvp frontline savage.
People do not understand coordinate 24 people where to go in frontline is already tough, coordinate what they should do?!! are you dreaming?

---

PvP stands for player versus player. You're fighting other players. There's nothing casual about it, but it's really not that hard to stay with your group and fight the enemy and observe objectives. It can be a lot of fun, if people pay the slightest bit of attention.

All it really takes is one person doing callouts and then the rest of the team paying attention and having their map open to see the objectives. There are plenty of guides out there if people need them. There's very little to learn compared to any extreme or savage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

PvP stands for player versus player. You're fighting other players. There's nothing casual about it, but it's really not that hard to stay with your group and fight the enemy and observe objectives. It can be a lot of fun, if people pay the slightest bit of attention.

All it really takes is one person doing callouts and then the rest of the team paying attention and having their map open to see the objectives. There are plenty of guides out there if people need them. There's very little to learn compared to any extreme or savage.

---

I would disagree somewhat with your last line (given how high the skill ceiling can get in PVP), however at least for getting a start in FL- I would say that if people start with trying to stay with their group , key their map open, and look at chat for callout , pinches and similar comms , then they would likely seen a dramatic improvement and have a lot more fun. I mean should be the point after all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

PvP stands for player versus player. You're fighting other players. There's nothing casual about it, but it's really not that hard to stay with your group and fight the enemy and observe objectives. It can be a lot of fun, if people pay the slightest bit of attention.

All it really takes is one person doing callouts and then the rest of the team paying attention and having their map open to see the objectives. There are plenty of guides out there if people need them. There's very little to learn compared to any extreme or savage.

---

Pretty much agree, and in addition to that one of the things that irks me the most is I'm pretty sure most people don't even open their maps at all, such a simple and useful information tool that just... gets wasted except by a minority in the match.

On the flip side, people sometimes focus too much on objectives too and forget about the whole PvP aspect, and then you look at the post match score breakdown and see the winning team had a ton of kill points and I'm just like... guys... please. Lol