Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

we are talking about relic weapons, if you guys wanted an easycake quest and get your OMFG weap...

Relics are not a common weapon, so stop complaining like you want it in 2 days. at begin in FFXI a relic could cost around 150.000.000 gils buying dynamis coins, or like years of playing to get your. sigh with new mmo players.

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Way to not read the thread or understand the message.

People want Relics to be hard. They want them to be an achievement to obtain. But they want them to be something you can actually make progress on without relying on RNG to swing your way like it's the old L50 Miragent's set in Aion. So that even if it's difficult and takes a long while, you know "hey, I made progress today, I'm getting closer" not "I hope this will be the last 2 million+ Gil weapon I'll have to try double melding without it breaking" or "I hope this time I'll get one of the 3 items I need and not DM".

The game in 2.0 need to change completly mentality... The problem with the current game is that is so slow and laggy that you can't make a very hard "skillfull" content... So all they can implement is based on luck or speed run...

With 2.0 the game need to be really more fast and engaging, so we can say goodbye to speedrun, and welcome much harder content with longer bind, but really better drop rates.

-Less tedious and grinding NOT skillfull content
-More skillfull and much harder content that only really good groups can beat ("WoW" hard modes as example anyone? ), but with much more better drop rate.

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Originally Posted by Magnesium02

So is this about right so far?


Step 1 - Earn 25,000 seals and buy the key item "On the Properties of Beastment"

Step 2 - Obtain Inferno Seal x3, Tremor Seal x3, Vortex Seal x3 from Rank 2 Hamlet (gold chest requiring 60K+ scores)

Step 3 - Talk to Rowena and Exchange for a Soiled Promissory Note

Step 4 - Go to Gerolt and start Quest "A Relic Reborn"

Step 5 - Gather HQ mats and craft or buy Class-Only Weapons (prefferably HQ)

Step 6 - Double meld the gear with 2 Teir IV Materia of a specific Type as follows:

PLD = Mailbreaker + ? (Most Likely +HP based on AF stats)
MNK = Avengers + Manathirst IV (+MP)
WAR = Rampager + Touch of Rage IV (Emnity)
DRG = Obelisk + Savage Might IV (Crit Attack)
BRD = Sarnga + Heaven's Eye IV (Accuracy)
WHM = Alkaurops + ? (Most likely Mind based on AF stats)
BLM = Astrolobe + Hell's Fist IV (Magic Potency)

Step 7 - Kill chief NM of one specified Stronghold.

PLD =
MNK = Flamefist in Zaha'rak
WAR =
DRG =
BRD =
WHM =
BLM =

Step 8 - Gather 3 Materials from 6th Chest available at end of AV and CC Run
Items: Miser's Mythril (Aurum Vale), Alumina Salts (Cutter's Cry)

Step 9 - Ignore the above steps and complain in hopes that you'll only have to talk to one NPC to obtain weapon.

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Seriously... you're complaining about something that's suppose to be hard to get. Why are you asking for one variation in which it should be tough to get and not a wide variety of concepts to make it hard to get.

Let's break this down:

-25k seals, able to obtain this in a variety of ways with the right group it's a joke

-Obtain 3 seals from each Hamlet, mainly only accessible upon obtain 50k+ points(Grind and event with only a 15 min wait per win and can spam it as much as you like)

-Exchange above for KI needed to initiate quest

-Obtain the crafted class weapon. (only as hard as the crafter makes it)

-Double Meld said weapon with proper materia (Hard but it's only a double meld be glad they didn't go triple-5)

-Kill Specific NM needed for Quest

-Obtain proper materials from CC or Aurum Vale

So let's see we have

GC seals=time/dedication

Hamlet Seals=Skill/luck the better you perform the better your chances of obtaining these seals quicker

Crafted weapons=Money/Luck/Community the better your connections the easier this is, if you know the right people it'll be easier to make, if you have the gil you can make it.

Melding=materia/time/luck Can wear multiple pieces of 41+ gear to obtain the proper materia and only need 2 of said IV. If you take the time to find the cheapest gear and make use of the spiritbond+ it'll cut down the time it takes to obtain(Yes Melding can be a pain and it sucks to break something but if you really want the weapon then be willing to put the gil into it. If you want to increase your chances then obtain what you need in bulk, have 3 crafted class weapons, 4-6 pieces of grade IV materia and a friend who can meld it all in one go. If you get it in 2 then good, if you get it on your first neat and if you end up breaking then better luck next time. This is a method used to decrease the flow of those who can get it, if it's only based on challenge after challenge after challenge then it's easy enough that certain aspects of said challenge could be exploited making these wepons easier to get then intended. When you place in variables which take time and dedication then these weapons become signs of those who really wanted to obtain these.

These weapons arent' suppose to be something that every person wearing AF should be able to obtain, this is only meant for those who are willing to take that extra push and go through these trials of luck to obtain what they need. It's a mix of everything which requires basically everyone to create it.

How does a Hamlet reach lv 2, through the work of gatherers/crafters who take the time to produce and turn in their items to increase the lv. How are the class weapons made? From the gatherers willing to take the time to obtain HQ materials to sell to crafters which then use their own HQ materials in order to produce more HQ mats to increase their odds of making said class weapon.

People are complaining about random numbers because they don't think it's fair that maybe it takes one person 60hrs to obtain the weapon and another 90hrs to obtain the weapon, yes the times are drastically different but it just means the one with 90hrs had less luck in this instance then the person that only took 60hrs.

So yea... good-luck trying to get SE to change this cause they won't, it's working as intended, the whiners are those who want this weapon to be for everyone and that's not who these weapons are intended for. If you truly want this weapon then go for it, but don't complain that it's to tough and hope that SE eases the requirements so everyone can obtain it.

i see no problem with the way they did it. we just have the most lazy ass people playing the game. this could be worse. it could of been a 36 hour a run thing. if you want the weapon you gotta go out there and earn it

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Originally Posted by Aistaraina

You're completely missing the point of this thread. We want the RNG factor removed as much as possible, instead of relying entirely upon it. We are not asking for easy mode, we are simply asking that if we put in the time, there is guaranteed progression. Maybe not a lot, but if we spend 3-4 hours working on a quest there should be some advancement, whereas right now you could make no progression even if spending 8+ hours a day doing stuff.

With the current system, a player who dedicates 10 hours a week could get a relic before someone who dedicates 70 hours per week. Slightly broken, no?

As a side note, I hardly play this game anymore, so it's not like I'm QQing because others will get them before me. I simply hate this trend of total RNG they keep implementing.

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To be fair though, by the same token in that 8 or 10 hours you could make a lot of progress. You can do about 2 Hamlet Defense runs an hour, you can gather tons of materials in an hour, you can craft quite a bit or meld materia in an hour, you can do Caravan runs/farm NMs/Toto-rak for seals during that time too.

Technically, if you're lucky you could probably do this in a day or two. If you're unlucky you could never, ever see a Relic weapon. Both sides of the same coin, can't just focus on the negative. I would bet that a great deal of people won't fall on the extremes of the luck spectrum either. Most would likely see SOME progress if they put 8-10 hours in.

Really the only part I agree that is downright luck based is the materia melding and it's not as bad as people are making it out to be either.

Aside from the melds most of these can be seen as visible progress if you put in a good day/days work.

Hamlet has been stated to have a much higher drop rate than previous patch, the rest is mainly community drivin in how long it will take you to complete.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

we are talking about relic weapons, if you guys wanted an easycake quest and get your OMFG weap...

Relics are not a common weapon, so stop complaining like you want it in 2 days. at begin in FFXI a relic could cost around 150.000.000 gils buying dynamis coins, or like years of playing to get your. sigh with new mmo players.

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This remembers me of the Good old days in SWG (Pre-CU) where it took me more than 15 months of work to get my Jedi Knight. Sometimes it was difficult or boring.
The difference is, i made progress every minute i did spent on this.
A progress i was able to see which kept me encouraged.

Here i dont see any progress. I dont even know if i ever get all seals, even if i spam Hamlets.
All the time i keep in mind that i might never get the seals because i go crazy after hamlet #500 (not to talk about the following steps...).
And i know that some ppl dont have to work for it as much as others do.

This system isnt motivating, it isnt even fair.

Its just some crap they were able to throw out asap without being forced to think about anything for a second (atleast i cant believe that a dev over there spent a second of time to think about this).


And just in case someone dont get the point:
I dont care if it takes ages and i dont care if its difficult (as long as the difficulty isnt caused by server lag...).
All i (and most of the others who complain about the current system) want is, something fair. Something where everyone have to put the same amount of work into.
And that we are able to see a progress. Something what tells us our time spent isnt wasted.

Well its not even just that though that could just be for the first part lol.
I think somebody else alrdy said it but you may need to do something much harder for the second piece. ><
I agree with Kiara in everything kiara said, this game right now relies on too much of RNG for almost everything.
I understand that a lot of us want a challenge, i really do as well. But i'm sure there can be something else challenging that doesn't rely on RNG and more skill tbh.
And yes I agree that this game always makes me feel like im not accomplishing anything no matter what i do lol. It just ends up being ok now i just need to do it 500 more times to get the other part.... xD
I really hope this thread catches the attention of SE.

If these relics will still be used for upgrading into new weapons (for example) in future expansions/lvl caps then I'm all for the current process - especially if these will (or SHOULD...) always be the best of the best of weapons. However, if these are meant just to pass time util 2.0 and/or future expansions that will render these obsolete... then eh *shrugs* little disappointing but I don't really care since I won't even try to upgrade them then, heh.

Is diferent when you are looking for only 1 drop than 9 drops, Statistics never lie.

9 drops with a 2.5% (20% drop / 8 party members) have a mean of 360 hamlets to get them all by yourself.

So is too similar to have a 100% drop and asking you to have 360 items. Mean and Standard Deviation. Could be more frustratting for you because between your drops you can have 50 or 100 hamlets withtout a drop, but needing 9 drops, your result will be closer to the mean (360 hamlets).

Its all in your mind.

100% drop, you need 360
50% drop you need 180
25% drop you need 90
5% drop you need 18
2.5% drop you need 9

the only thing is diferent is the Standard Deviation, but with 9 is not so high to feel too much diferent between you and another one.