1 week savage delay and everything that plays into it

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

What? How the hell did you even begin to come up with that? What kind of logic is this? When did I say I want to clear week 1??? And how is it my fault my clears are beholden to low tier players?

Also, no I'm not going to join a static, I just like the game, the community? Not so much, why? Because I'd get people like you.

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I'm mean, raiding in a static vs raiding in PF is going to have significant differences. It on average tends to be easier. So yeah, go join a static if you feel like PF isn't up to snuff. Although based on that last line in your post, I suspect you might have a hard time doing that.

I just assumed you were talking about week 1 given this is a thread about week 1 and you were responding to somebody talking about week 1 dps checks so IDK.

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

Additionally, any sort of safe downtime strat is generally abandoned once you actually clear and reclears come into play.

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That's generally the case in competent statics, yes. But party finder is notorious for hating change and having the flexibility of a concrete wall, so getting them to adopt a new strat with more uptime is essentially impossible. Even in statics you will sometimes find players who refuse to learn a new strat because "what we did before worked".

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Originally Posted by Yeastyloins

I'm mean, raiding in a static vs raiding in PF is going to have significant differences. It on average tends to be easier. So yeah, go join a static if you feel like PF isn't up to snuff. Although based on that last line in your post, I suspect you might have a hard time doing that.

I just assumed you were talking about week 1 given this is a thread about week 1 and you were responding to somebody talking about week 1 dps checks so IDK.

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You would be bewildered to learn that pugs clear the tier long before you and I do. There were week 1 pugs last tier and there will likely be week 2 pug clears this week.

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

Nay, opposite.

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Gotcha, apologies for doubting.

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

You would be bewildered to learn that pugs clear the tier long before you and I do. There were week 1 pugs last tier and there will likely be week 2 pug clears this week.

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No doubt, but on average are the majority of week 1 clears PF clears or statics?

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Originally Posted by Yeastyloins

I'm mean, raiding in a static vs raiding in PF is going to have significant differences. It on average tends to be easier. So yeah, go join a static if you feel like PF isn't up to snuff. Although based on that last line in your post, I suspect you might have a hard time doing that.

I just assumed you were talking about week 1 given this is a thread about week 1 and you were responding to somebody talking about week 1 dps checks so IDK.

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You assume too much. Statics in general are slower because they're not exempt from bad players, but they'll eventually get to clear the tier.

I'm not complaining about others, I'm complaining that enjoying Savage through PF is not feasible anymore because of all the new players(again I'm not blaming the new players, they can't help it), I didn't clear the last tier for example, in fact even after I got my clear in P3S, I didn't even attempt P4S. i was mentally drained and the only reason I cleared it is because I started a party and heavily quizzed whoever joined. It got that cynical and that's just not how anyone should have fun.

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Originally Posted by Yeastyloins

No doubt, but on average are the majority of week 1 clears PF clears or statics?

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Irrelevant. If the pug can coordinate as well as a static the issue remains. Comps should be able to clear the dps check.

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

You assume too much. Statics in general are slower because they're not exempt from bad players, but they'll eventually get to clear the tier.

I'm not complaining about others, I'm complaining that enjoying Savage through PF is not feasible anymore because of all the new players(again I'm not blaming the new players, they can't help it), I didn't clear the last tier for example, in fact even after I got my clear in P3S, I didn't even attempt P4S. i was mentally drained and the only reason I cleared it is because I started a party and heavily quizzed whoever joined. It got that synical and that's just not how anyone should have fun.

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Fair enough, having had to do PF during last tier on weeks where I had to miss my static's normal raid nights due to work deff gave me a headache from constantly having to cycle from groups left and right due to people dropping after 1 or 2 wipes. Similar experience in p4s since I had to get my first clear in PF. Likewise, I'd still say that you might fare better in a static provided you are able to find one that is composed of individuals that mesh well personality and gameplay-wise. Sure you might potentially clear a week or 2 potentially later, but you also have that chance to overall have your time spent raiding be more effective and satisfying despite not clearing as fast longterm.

At the same time, I can understand the burnout, I had something similar but in WoW and it made me cynical towards the playbase due to the headaches that emerged from the pugging scene. But that is a whole different beast from stuff seen in 14.

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Originally Posted by INymphI

so you are saying that statics like ours should continued to be dps check walled in week 1 relying on crit lucks? I understand that it does not bother you since you are not affected by that change and have enough gear once you reach p8s,

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To put it bluntly, yes. You're setting up an artificial wall for yourself by setting up that 1 week thing.

And to point it out, you can get around that wall by changing your team comp. I don't believe fights should be balance and meant to be clear on week 1. But of course I don't say to make it impossible. It simple means if you want to do it, you have to go the extra mile. Either putting more hour than what can normally expected of a average gamer, or be flexible team with your team comp, or have a degree of skill beyond the content designers, or all the above. The wall is not impassable, you're just annoyed because you don't willing to do all it takes to climb it.

And you never need to climb it in the first place. People don't climb Everest and complain it too hard, do they?

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but why do you not want us to enjoy week 1 even more?

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I thought I made it very obvious of the why. Your enjoyment comes at the cost of other enjoyment and the "you" here is an extremely small groups comparing to a much larger majority. (Unless of course you want to claim the majority of people are first week clearers?). And I would like to point out, my main problem with your OP isn't really about your own claim, but your superflious claim you made on behalf of people who are probably on the exact opposite of your spectrum. I had quoted it in my first post, but I will quote it here again to remind you:

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Originally Posted by INymphI

-> you may say "well, play better, deal more dps as your class". yup, we have room for improvement. we are not world racers. we are a solid static clearing savages week 1 for multiple years. but if even we are barely able to clear the dps check, week 2/3/4 raiders are not motivated but disencouraged.

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And I will tell you this, speak for yourself, because that's certainly NOT true. The week 2/3/4 people would appreciate the fact the fight still remain a good challenge by the time we get there. I don't want it to be balance around first week clear and in turn become a trivial affair in the latter weeks.

Raiding in just about ANY MMO has always meant to be a progression system over time. The early clears while expected, should never be the standard. And if it's not the standard, it should not be what to be balanced around.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

As someone who doesn't even do savage, I enjoyed the delay. Usually when a new raid tier drops, my friends who raid will jump in immediately to get their week1, and I'll basically never see them again. They're constantly in the raid zone, banging their head against PF and (sometimes) getting madder and madder as they continue to wipe due to other people being bad or w/e. Then they'll burn out on the game and start only logging in when they have to do their weekly raid stuff. And eventually they just stop playing altogether.

But this time, there was a week before all of that! So I actually got to enjoy the MSQ with those friends and go through the normal raids/EX with them before they went full-raider mode. It's way more preferred and I love this change and I hope they don't revert it back.

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This! I have people in my friend circle who hit it really hard and especially with how interesting the Panda storyline is, it's been great to be able get excited about the story together.

So long as the change isn't going to be a detriment or decrease the fun of the challenge, I also hope they retain this delay.