Revert summoner to 5.55 while re-reworking it please?

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Originally Posted by Manamaru

Unfortunately, if Squenix doesn't introduce leviathan, ramuh, and shiva into the mix by next expansion, you can consider the SMN class good as dead since they'll be too hyper focused trying to "correct" this mistake until it's so broken that barely anyone will want to touch it. We'll see what happens, and the comments and threads to follow with it. I can hardly wait.

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I know right. I worry because leviathan is huge lol and it seems they using the near original sizes of the primals. They will really have to shrink Leviathan down a bit.

first, I prefer the ew smn over the shb it's not perfect but at least it has an order to it. As for the other 3 summons it kind of shocking they didn't perhaps that what they will do in 7.0 have garuda, titan, and ifrit after bahamut and ram, levi , shiva after phoenix. with move sets similar to the first set. Also, any person who said we need choices have you look at this game every time there have been choice options it always been mid max to the extreme where one way became The Way eliminating the "choices." As for the no 29 -80 progession it there just you not getting a new button every few levels. If you look at most the other jobs, they are not getting many more button either. I'm guessing this will be the way of things going forward as controllers can only hold 32 buttons.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Weird saying everyone hates it but then a couple sentences later say there is a frequency of use. There is. But maybe it’s because people enjoy it. People don’t okay classes they hate once they are done leveling them.

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People are lazy. Given the lower satisfaction rating it does not seem likely that it’s played from enjoyment.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

People are lazy. Given the lower satisfaction rating it does not seem likely that it’s played from enjoyment.

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Or people like playing it. That it’s not complicated enough for likely a huge minority of players on the complaining (err dps) forums is irrelevant.

Almost every class in this game is easy to play. If it’s that unsatisfying people could play any of the other easy classes.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Almost every class in this game is easy to play. If it’s that unsatisfying people could play any of the other easy classes.

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Or, you know, they could have maintained the oGCDs and strengthened the core mechanics of the job while adding the new stuff instead of wiping it out. (And that has nothing to do with Bio and Miasma btw... to appease a certain someone's weak heart).

There's hard, intuitive, easy and then there's healer rotations and then there's new summoner.

The DPS role exists solely to do damage, there is no justification in any of them having a rotation simpler than any and every healer - particularly when the reasoning behind lobotomising the healer role was to encourage the players to focus on the responsibilities of that role (healing for those hard of thinking). Whether or not the devs line of reasoning had any basis in the reality of their game design is neither here nor there.

It doesn't really make sense that they completely lobotomised the carbuncle either. I'd be fine with having dots removed if they improved upon pet actions (since Summoner is supposed to be the PET DPS) but now the rook turret/Automaton Queen is more of a pet than our carbuncles and egis.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Or people like playing it. That it’s not complicated enough for likely a huge minority of players on the complaining (err dps) forums is irrelevant.

Almost every class in this game is easy to play. If it’s that unsatisfying people could play any of the other easy classes.

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This ^

I play SMN quite a bit and often see others queue up for roulettes... SAM as well. It really is a niche group of people that are just grumpy and inflexible.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

This ^

I play SMN quite a bit and often see others queue up for roulettes... SAM as well. It really is a niche group of people that are just grumpy and inflexible.

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Also calling people "lazy" and other disparaging names here while acknowledging the higher play rate means the rework was a success. People are playing the class. Pretending that they know what is going through other people's heads and claiming they play the class while hating every minute of it is absurd.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

I made the thread like you suggested - thanks for the advice there, there's been some interesting discussion.

Why not let summoner retain its identity in this game and have evoker added with a more realised set of summons? In ff3 at least, evoker had multiple possible actions/summon with summoner being limited to one admittedly typically stronger cast. This would allow the evoker to pivot to a more supportive role if needed or focus on damage (Assuming they don't keep the random selection for an unknown reason).

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A discount poison mage with only 3 pets that have gone unchanged since ARR will never hold the title of Summoner again. What this class needs now is to follow through and commit to its namesake with more abilities and a fleshed out kit. I will gladly cede to you Shb SMN in the form of a Necromancer, but calling that a Summoner was one of the worst things to ever happen in this game.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Also calling people "lazy" and other disparaging names here while acknowledging the higher play rate means the rework was a success. People are playing the class. Pretending that they know what is going through other people's heads and claiming they play the class while hating every minute of it is absurd.

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I think an enormous issue is that after having put up with the bad controls and glitches of Shb SMN, many of us who do enjoy the rework are glad to be rid of an experience that felt more like fighting against a keyboard than fighting against a boss. However there are people who prided themselves on manouvering these things and would gladly tell everyone else to just get good instead of realizing that something was clearly broken here.

I just want to not have to do weird things to play the job I like.

That, and for goodness sake add the remaining pantheon. A level 20 FFXI Summoner has a level 90 FFXIV Summoner beat in every capacity, from choices of summon to number of abilities. Remedy this now.