I thought people might be exaggerating about SMN

Summoner is so simple this meme hotbar macro setup is possible
https://youtu.be/h1Jl-_9e-xE?t=677

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I disagree, it feels a lot more active now. Although I only say this from experiencing pre-Endwalker Lv.50 Summoner and I thought the whole applying the whole dots game was kinda lame and boring. Comparing to how traditional FF Summoners are supposed to be I like that you get to spam all of their special attacks.

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Wait wait wait....you weren't even max level and you are trying to say its better to something you don't even know or played?

This is literally the problem

I find it amusing how people claim that Summoners rotation at 60 is "the same" as it is at 90 as though the majority of jobs don't also work like that.

By 60, 90% of the core job rotation is in place.
MCH is a perfect example. Between 60 and 90, All MCH gains for single target is Potency upgrades to existing parts of the rotation with the only major addition/alteration is being able to use Barrel Stablizer specifcially to handle Wildfire windows instead of needing to hold Heat for it.
You get exactly 1 GCD between 60 and 90.

Dragoon is quite similar, with the majority of its additions between 60 and 90 being upgrades to existing parts of the rotation. The only big change is the addition of Mirage Dive, which is mostlt just something that gets weaved into the existing GCD rotation.
So again, a job with 90% of its core rotation at 60.

Samurai as well. The only thing that gets added after 60 are big cooldowns or oGCDs to weave in. The only GCD addition is much like Machinist, with Ogi Namikiri added as a GCD at 90.
Hilariously, Monk has its entire rotation available at 60. Both of the big Blitz attacks just get upgrades at 90, with everything Monk gets between 60 and 90 being just trait upgrades. SSS doesn't really count as a rotational change, since it's only used in reaction to specific mechanics forcing you to disengage.

So please, Enlighten me as to which jobs undergo significant rotational changes between 60 and 90?
BLM might be the only one that i can think of, as all other jobs seem to just bolt on an extra GCD somewhere. But then again, BLM has a new rotation for just about every button it gains from level 15 onwards lol.
Everyone I've spoken to regarding Summoner has been praising it among my friend group.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

I find it amusing how people claim that Summoners rotation at 60 is "the same" as it is at 90 as though the majority of jobs don't also work like that.

By 60, 90% of the core job rotation is in place.
MCH is a perfect example. Between 60 and 90, All MCH gains for single target is Potency upgrades to existing parts of the rotation with the only major addition/alteration is being able to use Barrel Stablizer specifcially to handle Wildfire windows instead of needing to hold Heat for it.
You get exactly 1 GCD between 60 and 90.

Dragoon is quite similar, with the majority of its additions between 60 and 90 being upgrades to existing parts of the rotation. The only big change is the addition of Mirage Dive, which is mostlt just something that gets weaved into the existing GCD rotation.
So again, a job with 90% of its core rotation at 60.

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MCH is also criticized as being a braindead job after it received its lobotomy. That's a poor example to start with.

Old SMN's rotation went through bizarre changes across the levelling process due to the mishmash of interactions between its various systems-no other job works like that. Each job gives you a pretty clear idea of what you're suppose to be doing, and now Summoner also fits this pattern. I suppose this may be seen as "too easy" now that you don't have to look up on external sites how you're supposed to play the job properly.

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

Just saying the fisher job has more buttons to press and depth to it than Sum imo.

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LMAO true, unironically

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Originally Posted by Sylve

I find it amusing how people claim that Summoners rotation at 60 is "the same" as it is at 90 as though the majority of jobs don't also work like that.

By 60, 90% of the core job rotation is in place.
MCH is a perfect example. Between 60 and 90, All MCH gains for single target is Potency upgrades to existing parts of the rotation with the only major addition/alteration is being able to use Barrel Stablizer specifcially to handle Wildfire windows instead of needing to hold Heat for it.
You get exactly 1 GCD between 60 and 90.

Dragoon is quite similar, with the majority of its additions between 60 and 90 being upgrades to existing parts of the rotation. The only big change is the addition of Mirage Dive, which is mostlt just something that gets weaved into the existing GCD rotation.
So again, a job with 90% of its core rotation at 60.

Samurai as well. The only thing that gets added after 60 are big cooldowns or oGCDs to weave in. The only GCD addition is much like Machinist, with Ogi Namikiri added as a GCD at 90.
Hilariously, Monk has its entire rotation available at 60. Both of the big Blitz attacks just get upgrades at 90, with everything Monk gets between 60 and 90 being just trait upgrades. SSS doesn't really count as a rotational change, since it's only used in reaction to specific mechanics forcing you to disengage.

So please, Enlighten me as to which jobs undergo significant rotational changes between 60 and 90?
BLM might be the only one that i can think of, as all other jobs seem to just bolt on an extra GCD somewhere. But then again, BLM has a new rotation for just about every button it gains from level 15 onwards lol.
Everyone I've spoken to regarding Summoner has been praising it among my friend group.

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Ah but you see the classes you mention (barring MCH) are slightly more complicated than other classes so that makes the big brain people feel better playing them.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

MCH is also criticized as being a braindead job after it received its lobotomy. That's a poor example to start with.

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SAM is also a poor example as it's gauge is expanded upon in those 30 levels with increased and new ways to increase and manage it, and the new cooldowns augment its burst phases and timings even if it doesn't diverge significantly from the core of collecting sen and using iajutsu. SMN on the other hand from 60 to 90 adds one button to your burst phase, Enkindle demi (and searing on the 2mins), and one button to each primal. Nothing makes you reconsider any part of your rotation, it's just fluff.

DRG is even more baffling. More than one AoE GCD is nothing significant? Life of the Dragon isn't anything significant? Lance Mastery II and IV are basically as rotationally significant as all of the changes SMN gets from 60-90 barring Ifrit Astral Flow.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Yeah, if we wanted to spam one damage spell forever, we'd play a healer.

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That's gonna be a big oof.

Its the magical version of the MCH. Its been streamlined to be fast paced in both single and aoe attacks , with lots of breathing room for AWBC , mobility , ease of use to get into.

The old and unreliable clipping of slow pet attacks are now done automatically and fast paced and you now have direct control of bahumuts old autos .

It baffled me for a while then after a few hours i grew to really enjoy it and at 86 when you get the final egi spells you throw out so much double weaving the job should be renamed Arcane Weaver lol