Living Dead: Problem List

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Originally Posted by Shin96

I think the best feedback is them screwing over this job much enough until everyone has a problem; that's when they will take any action.

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Never going to happen. DRK is the only job with its extremely popular weapon choice, and the only tank with its extremely popular aesthetics. Those 2 visual elements are the sole reason DRK remains so popular. Yes ppl play it for being super easy 123 job, or for TBN on learning content, but they are 100% the minority of DRK players.

SE looks at jobs being played, and jobs being ignored. This seems to be ONE of the main ways they determine if they should do anything about a job. The last time SE said they would fix DRK, DRK was being played, but the SECOND way to get their attention, was that PuGs were preferring WAR/PLD for cheese strats, and DRK had none.

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Originally Posted by Wayback

I've had another direction I'd like to see Living Dead go --

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*slow clap*
Absolutely amazing design. Not only in functionality, and UI QoL updates, but also for that classic FF feel.
Currently GNB is the only tank with a "Sacrifice HP" for a benefit design, which should have clearly been DRKs.
With your suggestion, you may not be sacrificing HP, but that loss of HP comes extremely close, as it is a "cost" of sorts. Almost making DRK feel like a classic DRK, rather than Lineage 2's Magic Tank.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Never going to happen. DRK is the only job with its extremely popular weapon choice, and the only tank with its extremely popular aesthetics. Those 2 visual elements are the sole reason DRK remains so popular. Yes ppl play it for being super easy 123 job, or for TBN on learning content, but they are 100% the minority of DRK players.

SE looks at jobs being played, and jobs being ignored. This seems to be ONE of the main ways they determine if they should do anything about a job. The last time SE said they would fix DRK, DRK was being played, but the SECOND way to get their attention, was that PuGs were preferring WAR/PLD for cheese strats, and DRK had none.

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I'm not going to disagree with the gist of this statement, but that feels super self-defeating. They are going to do it when we annoy them just enough. You essentially have no justification for the butchering of this job, even more so with the addition of strange enhancements in 6.0. There will come a point when this is not a go-to tank anymore. The thought of having enhanced Unmend will put off some people as well.

Jobs being played doesn't necessarily imply there's a grain of satisfaction. The whole point of picking a main is being comfortable and having fun. So when people clearly dislike parts of this job, does that give them a right to patronize us into submission? Not sure that's the actual issue at play here.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

-dont give up-

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Im essentially saying dont get your hopes up. Im still not playing the class. Back before it came out, I said, no matter how complex a 2h sword tank would be, id play it and master it. I want it too badly... well here we are, where the opposite is true, and its just too boring to play. So if im already not playing it, theres not anything I can do about others playing it. Im not going to tell them they cant enjoy it.

semi unrelated story...
Ironically, me and a friend returned to the game after 2 years, and we talked about changes from SB, and if WAR or DRK was the easier tank. 5 people left the LS because they thought I was insulting them as players, by saying its mechanically easier to use a oGCD to get your dmg buff, than it is to go through a GCD combo to refresh your buff. I never mentioned them, or said ppl who play DRK or WAR were bad players. I just said IF someone was struggling, DRK and WAR are good options for doing harder content. (along with exceptions as to how WAR/DRK might even be harder, in the right circumstances.)

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Im essentially saying dont get your hopes up. Im still not playing the class. Back before it came out, I said, no matter how complex a 2h sword tank would be, id play it and master it. I want it too badly... well here we are, where the opposite is true, and its just too boring to play. So if im already not playing it, theres not anything I can do about others playing it. Im not going to tell them they cant enjoy it.

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I think some people have been invested in this job. The lack of identity is a real issue with DRK. It doesn't set out to be different or unique its in own way.

Here's the thing. No one is trying to diminish the enjoyment others take out of DRK. Of course I would wish for it to be similiar to 3.0 in most aspects, but they took a different route. Let's say this is your main for any specific reason. It's unreasonable to just take things as they come. Look at 6.0 DRK, it's sorely disappointing. I mean people aren't asking for much (maybe I do), but realistically giving this job more self-sustain options isn't a bad choice. Well they didn't this time. It's too bad I got emotionally attached to this job, otherwise I'd probably complain about nothing else, since for the most part I'm fine with this game.

If things remain this way, I can only safely hope Reaper won't walk in the same shoes as DRK did. If Reaper turns out to be worth my time, I might be willing to let go of my greatsword. All those relics will be worth nothing, maybe you can see why I grew so much towards this job.

Reddit cross-post: Living Dead - Current problems and balance issues following Endwalker media tour changes

I know im just rehashing what has alrrady been said, but I find it baffling how Holmgang and Superbolide had their duration now match Hallowed Ground without any penalty and Living Dead, while I formerly was okay with since I traded my invuln power for a very strong base mitigation kit, received absolutely nothing when it needed it the most.

Doesn't help that Holy Sheltron, Bloodwhetting / Enhanced Nascent Flash and Heart of Corundum are all insane mitigation upgrades and DRK gets.... 2x 10% 10s mitigation over 2min. I mean yes, it is extra mitigation, but they mightve as well baked that into TBN at this point.

Here are my proposed changes to DRK:

Walking Dead now grants invulnerability status.
Walking Dead debuff is removed upon reaching full HP.
- With Living Dead now being an invuln, reaching full HP from 1 HP is essentially the same as being healed for 100% of your HP. The nice thing with this change is, from the moment Walking Dead triggers, healers have the full 10 seconds to heal you as opposed to waiting for let's say a multi-hit tankbuster to end and then rushing to heal you with 4 seconds remaining. It's basically similar to Superbolide with the condition of needing to be healed to full, but better than Holmgang in the sense that you can be healed immediately upon triggering of Walking Dead. This justifies the cooldown being longer than Holmgang but shorter than Superbolide.

Oblation now lasts 15 seconds.
- A little buff to Oblation wouldn't hurt as this allows Oblation to be used as the "uptime" mitigation while reserving TBN for the harder hits.

Bloodspiller/Quietus extends your Darkside duration by 30 seconds.
Darkside max duration is 300 seconds.
Upon reaching max duration, Darkside duration is reset to 30 seconds and a Dark Arts proc is granted.
You can now store up to 2 Dark Arts Proc.
- These changes make Dark Knight's job gauge more meaningful. You would use MP and Blood to extend your Darkside timer which in turn rewards you with a Dark Art Proc. 300 seconds as the max duration can be adjusted to sound more reasonable.

Abyssal Drain now gives 20 Blood Gauge.
Salted Earth grants you a buff that freezes the duration of Darkside.
- These changes make all DRK's oGCDs related to one of their resources, with Carve and Spit replenishing MP.

Shadowbringer does not require Darkside but consumes 1 Dark Arts instead.
- This requirement sounds more reasonable as Darkside is never dropped. Having Darkside as the ultimate resource to use DRK's strongest oGCD makes sense. With it still being tied to a cooldown, you can use any extra Dark Arts proc generated from TBN on Edge of Shadows. But the primary idea is to be able to generate 2 Dark Arts proc from reaching Darkside max duration and spend them on Shadowbringer every 2 minutes.

(edit, whoops forgot I already commented in this thread a little while ago.)

+1 for this post, it's something that's really important to me as a DRK player.

I've proposed my own fix for Living Dead, might as well mention it again. Instead of killing you if not healed to full, Living Dead should grant 4 stacks of an effect for 10s. While under this effect, you get the standard invun effect.

When you're healed for 25% of your HP, you lose one stack. When the effect expires, you take damage equal to 25% of your max HP for every stack remaining.

With this change,

• the thematic concept of the skill is preserved
  
• its easier to track how close you are to surviving the skill by tracking your remaining stacks
  
• you only need to heal to 50% HP to survive because:
  
• shield healers are more valuable to soak that final burst of damage
  
• the DRK can delay TBN and use it to soak a stack and get a guaranteed Dark Arts

I've always thought this fix should be pretty obvious so I'm surprised we've gone years without a change like this from the dev teams.

Honestly, part of this is the self recovery. You can prevent an amazing amount of damage as DRK but you can't correct any mistakes you make in the way other tanks can, which is a huge issue.

To resolve this, DRK really should get more healing skills. Not more than the other tanks but something to flesh out the kit and recover from dangerous situations when TBN fails. Their new 60s 2 charge cooldown is screaming for a healing effect - would love for it to heal based on damage taken like Macrocosmos does.

Alternativly, Dark Mind would really do well to have healing folded into the skill so you have some regeneration at a low level (DRK should never have lost Soul Survivor tbh).

I've said it before in other medias and I'm posting here cuz i want DRK to change as yoshi apparently hasn't seen any posts in the forums about LD and BW. Just get rid of the detrimental "death" affect of LD. other jobs have gotten rid of their debuff and side effects on their skills, why cant LD get rid of theirs? just leaving it as is and not adding anything additional is still better, do to the fact that you need to activate WD under LD to be invuln is its own side effect.

you can split the tanks invul into two kinds, WARs vers or PLDs vers. With GNB being a PLD vers and DRK being a WAR vers, its literally holmgang with extra steps. it actually might be better than holmgang in the invul aspect, holmgang makes you invuln right away within those 8(EW will now be 10) secs but for LD you can have a range of 10-20 secs. even if it activates right away from a one shot mech, the fact you have a better timing window than holmgang allows you to pop it almost 10 secs earlier than needed. so keeping it at 5 mins would still make sense.

Someone from the reddit thread suggested what I feel is easily the best solution to Living Dead. Simply put, you take zero damage but also cannot be healed throughout its duration. So if you active it with 5% of your HP, you'll stay at exactly 5% for 10s. If you active it at 90%, you'll stay at 90%. Not only does this allow DRK to feel powerful using its own invuln but also removes the resource dump required from Healers. This also justifies the 60s longer CD than Holmgang because you're technically immune to damage.

Basically, this fixes nearly all of LD's problems in one fell swoop.