The clones of Emet.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

He HAS been a pretty big manipulator and planner up to this point. He planned the whole soul crystal stuff in 5.3 during the final battle with us (which may be where he disappeared to when we were fighting the adds), so him having planned one last "encore" for a curtain call isn't out of the question. Not to mention the unexplained existence and stalking of THAT SHOEBILL (no, I can't forget this thing, it haunts me).

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Do we have evidence he planned all of that at exactly that point? Because I'm pretty sure the crystals were kicking around for a long time (and are by all rights appearing to be the real deal ones they used to ascend the rest of the Ascians), the only real question is how they ended up where we found them. And there's a lot of explanations for that, chiefly suspecting Hythlodaeus or perhaps Elidibus dropping them.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Do we have evidence he planned all of that at exactly that point? Because I'm pretty sure the crystals were kicking around for a long time (and are by all rights appearing to be the real deal ones they used to ascend the rest of the Ascians), the only real question is how they ended up where we found them. And there's a lot of explanations for that, chiefly suspecting Hythlodaeus or perhaps Elidibus dropping them.

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Hythlodaeus hands us a soul crystal that belongs to the 14th, one that shouldn't have been made since defectors were not to be remembered. One that Emet-Selch made in secret. Nobody but him would have had access to it or know of its existence, and Hythlodaeus even says he's unsure if all this was by his own will or by Emet-Selch's that he has given it to us. But considering all those crystals suddenly appeared in Amaurot when they weren't there before the end of 5.0, it's highly likely Emet-Selch had a hand in it.

None of you address how your band of misfit survive intact enough to come to your rescue and who was sustaining Hythlodaues's shade, whom somehow knows Emet's last word to you (To remember them). In my opinion. The only thing they could have done is to add this line to the end credit "Emet Selch will return in Endwalker" like so many Bond movies to advertise the fact. Emet has dominated the story from the moment he shows up and he's arguably the best Antagonist in FFXIV so far. He'll have a major (maybe not so direct) role to play in Endwalker.

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Originally Posted by Wiz33

None of you address how your band of misfit survive intact enough to come to your rescue and who was sustaining Hythlodaues's shade, whom somehow knows Emet's last word to you (To remember them). In my opinion. The only thing they could have done is to add this line to the end credit "Emet Selch will return in Endwalker" like so many Bond movies to advertise the fact. Emet has dominated the story from the moment he shows up and he's arguably the best Antagonist in FFXIV so far. He'll have a major (maybe not so direct) role to play in Endwalker.

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That's all a big stretch. We could just as easily say Hythodauses was lying to us all along and is another Ascian in disguise. Or Hythodauses is actually a copy of Emet-Selch's own memories, and not some friend. There's a lot of maybe-kinda-sorta, but there is nothing certain.

I mean "Hythodauses" means "Dispenser of Nonsense" in Greek, and much of Shadowbringers nomenclature is lifted directly from Thomas More's book, Utopia. That said, there's no reason to dig too deep into it as SE is known for lifting names without accompanying meaning or associated mythology.

Yes, anything is possible, but more likely than not, you've just got to trust the game isn't lying to you, unless it is an elaborate plot twist, in which case there would be a LOT of evidence.

A more realistic thing is they just rehired the voice actor they like to do more work on other characters.

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Originally Posted by Wiz33

None of you address how your band of misfit survive intact enough to come to your rescue and who was sustaining Hythlodaues's shade, whom somehow knows Emet's last word to you (To remember them). In my opinion. The only thing they could have done is to add this line to the end credit "Emet Selch will return in Endwalker" like so many Bond movies to advertise the fact. Emet has dominated the story from the moment he shows up and he's arguably the best Antagonist in FFXIV so far. He'll have a major (maybe not so direct) role to play in Endwalker.

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It's actually stated after Emet's death that he wasn't maintaining Fake Amaurot, he'd just created it with enough aether that it kept standing afterwards. It's going to disappear eventually, but until then, it keeps standing.

(For the obvious MMO game design reason, honestly; Amaurot has to be there indefinitely so we can keep being able to go do quests there, so it has to stay there until the game shuts down. If he were still maintaining it then you just back-date the same problem; eventually someone's gonna kill him, and then he can't maintain Amaurot anymore.)

Also, Hythlodaeus knows Emet's last words because we tell him. There's a cut in the Etched in the Stars cutscene where the WoL explains recent events.

As for 'how your band of misfits survive'... I don't even know what you're talking about, so I'm going to scattershot all the simple explanations for what you could be saying that I can figure.

Why could the Scions go to Fake Amaurot in the first place? Because it's physically there, they can walk there, and Bismarck filled the local area with oxygen.
Why could they go into Dungeon Amaurot? Because Emet-Selch just has a door to that place sitting in Fake Amaurot.
How could they then fight in there? The good old-fashioned ultraviolence.
How could they break into the arena for the Dying Gasp after the fight? Hades had been actively manipulating that one, and at that point was freaking out and got the snot beaten out of him; the barrier keeping them out was weak enough to bust through, if it wasn't already.
How could they find you in Amaurot in 5.3? They... uhm, didn't. Elidibus teleports the WoL and Y'shtola to Fake Amaurot, and after Etched in the Stars, they teleport back out.
How could they find you after the Seat of Sacrifice? They... also didn't. We only reconvene with them after leaving the Crystal Tower; presumably they were holding the line somewhere further down during all that.

Yeah, I think Emet's gonna be a presence in Endwalker, even if I really, sincerely wish he wouldn't be. But it's going to be a posthumous presence, probably in Echo flashbacks or recordings in Mare Lamentorum (or whatever other Ancient structures we find). He's not coming back for some last laugh--and if he does, frankly, I quit.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

A more realistic thing is they just rehired the voice actor they like to do more work on other characters.

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Also, while again I assume he'll be back for some Endwalker cutscenes, I actually think they wouldn't necessarily have to do this. A couple of those lines sound close to some of his Dungeon Amaurot lines, but not exact; I could feasibly believe either it was recorded deliberately during Shadowbringers (since they probably knew how Endwalker was planned to look anyway), or that it was actually stitched together from scrapped lines/alternate takes for his Shadowbringers appearances.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

That's all a big stretch. We could just as easily say Hythodauses was lying to us all along and is another Ascian in disguise. Or Hythodauses is actually a copy of Emet-Selch's own memories, and not some friend. There's a lot of maybe-kinda-sorta, but there is nothing certain.

I mean "Hythodauses" means "Dispenser of Nonsense" in Greek, and much of Shadowbringers nomenclature is lifted directly from Thomas More's book, Utopia. That said, there's no reason to dig too deep into it as SE is known for lifting names without accompanying meaning or associated mythology.

Yes, anything is possible, but more likely than not, you've just got to trust the game isn't lying to you, unless it is an elaborate plot twist, in which case there would be a LOT of evidence.

A more realistic thing is they just rehired the voice actor they like to do more work on other characters.

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The game is not lying to you. it's just that most of you just listen to Emet being mean and taunting you while not paying attention to the fact that his actions speaks differently. You need to remember that Emet is an arrogant SOB and that's how he speaks to everyone (harmful intent or not).

Right, I have not found many other language 5.X gameplay footage with Emet's other voice actor to compare. but the Japanese and English voice actor have been confirmed by multiple sources. of the limited cases that I could find in other language, the voice actor for Emet also did the same portion of voice over on the Endwalker trailer. Now, that's a big stretch if it's not intentional.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

It's actually stated after Emet's death that he wasn't maintaining Fake Amaurot, he'd just created it with enough aether that it kept standing afterwards. It's going to disappear eventually, but until then, it keeps standing.

Also, Hythlodaeus knows Emet's last words because we tell him. There's a cut in the Etched in the Stars cutscene where the WoL explains recent events.

As for 'how your band of misfits survive'... I don't even know what you're talking about, so I'm going to scattershot all the simple explanations for what you could be saying that I can figure.

Yeah, I think Emet's gonna be a presence in Endwalker, even if I really, sincerely wish he wouldn't be. But it's going to be a posthumous presence, probably in Echo flashbacks or recordings in Mare Lamentorum (or whatever other Ancient structures we find). He's not coming back for some last laugh--and if he does, frankly, I quit.

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You need your memories checked. The Etched in the Stars cutscene was Hythlodaues telling us that he would preferred that we survive the encounter with Elidabeus so we can honor our word to Emet to remember them. Not us telling them.

Emet said he won't lie to you. He also said he could wipe your entire party away without much effort. Yet did you notice that the ring of arrows landed in a circle around Alisaie and Aiphinaud instead of on them and a perfect killing shot on Ryne only knock her out for a bit? If his intention is to take out the scions. They would have all be dead at the beginning of The Dying Gasp, much less timed a perfect rescue at the end no worse for wear. It was all a setup by Emet to test your worthiness and save your butt if you are. Why else would he have the trail of crystal ready for you and was there to snap you out of the void in SOS.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Also, while again I assume he'll be back for some Endwalker cutscenes, I actually think they wouldn't necessarily have to do this. A couple of those lines sound close to some of his Dungeon Amaurot lines, but not exact; I could feasibly believe either it was recorded deliberately during Shadowbringers (since they probably knew how Endwalker was planned to look anyway), or that it was actually stitched together from scrapped lines/alternate takes for his Shadowbringers appearances.

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And they just happens to have those lines on hand for both the Japanese and English voice actor and the other languages as well?, while you might be able to stitch the recording in one language, you won't be able to on others as they would need different phrasing, grammar or even words.

You guys really need to think this through. So much evidences that basically everything that Emet did since he shown up has been testing and helping you (yes, while acting mean and taunting you with his words every step of the way since he's an arrogant SOB) but pay attention not to his words but to his deeds. From snapping Y'shtola out of the life stream to him shooting Crystal Exarch and kidnapping him is for both of your benefit. Yes. the Exarch would have saved you and extracted the Aether form you. But he would have died and the Scions may or may not get send back home safely. In either case, they won't be there to help you confront Emet in The Dying Gasp, And the Exarch won't be there to make the duty finder cannon :-P. Even if the Scion made it home safe, they will not be there to help you stop Elidibeus and even if you manage to defeat him, you wont be able to bind him as no one will be there to control the Crystal Tower. You also won't have the Exarch's memories to transfer back into G'ranha's body so he can becomes a member of the Scion. So it's either that or sloppy writing and you know that will never happen with Ishikawa.