Dps job design issues due to lack of utility.

OP-

We used to have more utility back in the day with putting mobs to sleep and helping with getting TP and mana back with songs.

But then players and SE just streamlined the game so ppl just AoE and burn things down so such utility isn't needed anymore.

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Originally Posted by Imora

My DPS jobs have enough buttons, thanks.

I don't want situational garbage. I hate wasting keybind space on stuff I'll never use in wow(looking at you cyclone, which I've used outside of PvP a total of twice this expansion), I don't want to waste my limited keybind space on it here, either.

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Limited keybind space? I do not play with a controller but I know for mouse and keyboard I have binds for days. As mentioned I get you disagree but I personally enjoy having situational utility with niche uses. Expanded tool kits have always been my jam.

Granted I am an odd ball I also miss having to manage aggro as a dps.

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Originally Posted by Roda

Silence is a thing, but it's more a quick time event for tanks.

Also interrupts work well when they 1, have cooldowns, and 2, require group participation.

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Interrupts are not really Silence. Silence is the debuff that some bosses can cast like Glasya Labolas in crystal tower raids.

I made a thread asking why is there little to no utility required in savage outside damage mitigation and shields. The common answer was: it is boring to solve a mechanic by using esuna or interject. So I guess this is why devs only focus on making interesting mechanics that you solve yourself + add some base raidwide damage so that healers are needed to clear the content.

They're not going back, unfortunately.

XIV's original concept was almost like FFV's job system. You were encouraged to level multiple jobs since 1.0, not only because the game punished you for leveling only one by having exp fatigue or swapping jobs mid-dungeon to be an intended mechanic, but also with actions being completely cross-class and based on weapon skill points rather than "class". Then ARR came and that was streamlined to be "some actions can be cross-skills depending on the job". Then we got the excruciatingly BORING "role actions" system.

The official reason is "balance". By which means "the closer every job effectively plays the same, the less likely it will be that players will not be excluded from high-end content due meta". It's not wrong, and it accomplishes the dumb balance, but it's also the most awful, superficial, boring, anti-JRPG and anti-Final Fantasy design decision ever conceived in XIV.

And I didn't even touch on materia changes, or how XIV prior to the reboot had situational gear and point allotment that you could reset as well as elemental attributes. People love to defend this with "muh illusion of choice" argument, but those people probably haven't been playing proper jRPGs in ages, since that level of situational prep is a staple even in ARPGs like freaking Kingdom Hearts.
The real reason those things are gone have nothing to do with muh illusion. They have everything to do with Yoshida's vision being that of a game "for everyone" rather than a game for "gamers/RPG fans". Hardcore players are left with savage and ultimate content, which in the grand scheme of things is only a small portion of the updates and has been rather rehashy since Stormblood, midcore get... deep dungeons, and casuals get the whole fat of it.
People oversimplify pre 1.19's failure parrotting "nightmaaare" when it was pretty unique and ambitious on paper, but ruined by factors that had little to do with the concept of its features: Disjointed team with bad internal communication, company suits pushing for premature release, impossible profit expectations, Square-Enix's still very present exaggerated push for fireworks shows/visuals... And of course, the engine.
Yoshida literally referred to it as "FF version of WoW", and that was his solution plain and simple. There never was this grand plan of making the game particularly unique or daring from a gameplay standpoint.
Their main goal since has been to make the game "accessible". In their defence they're making a good job. It's probably the only MMORPG that achieves that. Everything but relics and high-end raids is designed to have both a "pick up and play" and "big chunks of progression in one session" feels to them.
But the accessibility comes at a cost. The push against making players feel like they need more than one job (despite this being a game that boasts about its job change system), the completely vertical progression, the numerous catch-up shortcuts and the chore of repetitive brain-shutting daily roulettes being some of it.
When it comes to XIV the only customization that is considered is aesthetic. Any build customization goes against what Yoshida's XIV is supposed to be. It will literally never happen.

And to add my personal opinion, part of why I'm leaving after 6.0. The combat is not good. It's completely dependent on boss mechanics to have any level of variation. This makes fighting overworld monsters for quests/MSQ a huge chore, because the way you handle every. single. one. of them is exactly the same. This tedious "balance" of job actions and focus exclusively on peaking DPS the same way everywhere means without bosses every fight is literally the same thing. And frankly that was very poorly conceived. Even the most shallow jRPGs had, at the very least, some form of encouragement to make you handle enemies differently by type/size/behavior, even something as simple as "use this instead of this", instead of being a bunch of animated striking dummies that differ only in the particles they shoot. Some kind of situational battle prep WOULD be very welcome. But again, it will literally never happen. Not in XIV at least.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Granted I am an odd ball I also miss having to manage aggro as a dps.

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I miss having reason to pull aggro as DPS, from the ARR days when kiting was a thing (sick the tank on the ranged or focus target, and just have your Bard pull the rest and kite in tight circles around the focus target). Same with pulling adds off the healer and putting them on the tank.

Hitting Diversion on CD, though? Nope. Not at all.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I miss having reason to pull aggro as DPS, from the ARR days when kiting was a thing (sick the tank on the ranged or focus target, and just have your Bard pull the rest and kite in tight circles around the focus target). Same with pulling adds off the healer and putting them on the tank.

Hitting Diversion on CD, though? Nope. Not at all.

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Thing it was just not an aspect of hitting diversion on CD sure that was the action itself but having aggro be a group effort was a fun concept for me added to the general group dynamic.

I do greatly miss aggro management and mitigation skills.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

At the lowest two levels of difficulty, perhaps, but the thing about WoW's dungeons is that they have more than the one difficulty level we have here in XIV. WoW instead has technically infinite difficulty levels in its dungeons, even if people are only really climbing up to the 30th (normal, heroic, and then up the mythic modifiers).

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Even in heroic dungeons there was little to no need for CC in WoW ... I did manage to play through a 10 year period beginning with BC, and noticed that particular.

There is no 'mythic' dungeon in FFXIV, and, given the way gear is obtained from a variety of places outside of dungeons, I don't see that changing.

As I said earlier - different games.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Even in heroic dungeons there was little to no need for CC in WoW ... I did manage to play through a 10 year period beginning with BC, and noticed that particular..

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Heroic dungeons are, again, the second lowest difficulty... out of 30+ (or 17 before ilvl reward caps). Heroic dungeons are rarely even mechanically differed from the leveling ("Normal") version, just scaled up to allow for higher ilvl rewards. Outside of BC and Cata, one hasn't doesn't even needed to understand their rotation for them.

Granted, to say that CC played no part in Cata or BC, back when they were more serious endgame content or the pendulum had swung back from Wrath's overly easy ones, respectively... you'd have to have been massively overgeared.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Thing it was just not an aspect of hitting diversion on CD sure that was the action itself but having aggro be a group effort was a fun concept for me added to the general group dynamic.

I do greatly miss aggro management and mitigation skills.

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Same, I just feel that it was shallowed down to where it was more bloat (Diversion-on-CD) than mechanic. If it were instead more engaging, I'd love it.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Heroic dungeons are, again, the second lowest difficulty... out of 30+ (or 17 before ilvl reward caps).

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Yeah, and 28+ of those difficulty levels are Mythic Dungeons of one kind or another, which aren't going to find their way into this game any time soon.

Back in BC, when I started, CC in normal and heroic instances could be ignored in favor of selective targeting followed by 'sneaking around corners', no problem. I finished one such instance and was then taught the appropriate way to deal with CC in such instances with a massively undersized party consisting of two hunters and a shaman. Good times, but the wisdom imparted was ultimately wasted in succeeding expansions.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

Interrupts are not really Silence. Silence is the debuff that some bosses can cast like Glasya Labolas in crystal tower raids.

I made a thread asking why is there little to no utility required in savage outside damage mitigation and shields. The common answer was: it is boring to solve a mechanic by using esuna or interject. So I guess this is why devs only focus on making interesting mechanics that you solve yourself + add some base raidwide damage so that healers are needed to clear the content.

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They used to be called silence. They were changed to interrupt with shadowbringers. Many of us still call them silences.

In fact, plds spirit within used to inflict silence, and you had to be very careful on using it for dmg back in the old could t1 and T2 days.

You could silence the 2nd boss in labyrinth (still can) on the knock back he does.