You need to make your mind up, in one statement you say you don't think its true healers spend most duties doing 2,1,1,1,1,1,1 yet in your post immediately before you state p2 of e12s require's little healingQuote:
Originally Posted by Sovasin
As for whether it is true or not, yes its true healers spend way too much time not needing to heal. The healer forums have being saying this as far back as shadowbringers launch.
e4s was cleared without a healer damage is so low. Yes gear creep makes less healing required. It doesn't change the fact that healers still had ample time to dps during prog.
Reminder yoshida said in famitsu interview that came out recently that they tried to tune healing as tight as possible for this tier. What this tier shows is that Squareenix CAN design fights that demand healing and people enjoy it
Except gear creep neutralises that swiftly and it also begs the question, what about EVERY OTHER DUTY IN THE GAME than this savage tier?
There's a total of 40 savage fights in the game and 3 ultimates outside of delubrum which data is still being collected on. There's a total of 7 that require intense healing at their tier. E12, E11, O8s, O4s, A12s, A4s, A3s
We all know some of these savage modes are a walk in the park. If we were generous and said 43 duties required intense healing at minimum ilvl, that's still less than half the number of dungeons alone. So already thats 86+ duties where healers are going 2,1,1,1,1 etc
Its not enough for just savage to heal more, when there's so many duties that don't require much healing and that's not even taking into account msq. hoary and coultenet in 2.1, Raubahn in 3.2, zenos in 4.0, ranjiit in 5.0. All of these long fights at level and you spend it going 2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
also tip: edit your post you can bypass the text limit
Famitsu Interview: Tuning encounters for healing
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02-16-2021, 07:37 PMRecon1o6
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02-16-2021, 07:40 PMSpiralMask
@Sovasin: you can edit posts to circumvent the character limit after the initial post, so you can combine those into one and avoid multiposting in the future (since some folks may take it as spam, even if it's fairly reasonable or on-topic posts)
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02-17-2021, 12:32 AMSovasin
Sorry, didn't know about editing posts to bypass the limit.
I said that healers aren't just 12111 bots but that doesn't mean that applies to every fight in the game. There are some fights where they are but not all. And one reason why E12sP2 doesn't have much healing is because half the fight is just relativities with the delay mechanic which forces all the damage to hit in one burst at the end of each relativity. And the damage in between got shoved into Terminal. The overall HPS required is still pretty high if you include the enrage. E4S kind of had a similar problem where a big chunk of the damage got shoved into orogenesis, but phase 1 at least was fun to heal.
Yeah gear creep is dumb. I think gear's VIT and defense should be nerfed. At the same time this is Square's solution to help casuals clear, so it's not something you can nerf too heavily. I think offering rewards for min ilvl clears is the best solution, making it optional for those who don't mind the challenge but don't have enough time to raid all day week 1. Either that, or make vit lower the duration of your weakness debuff which makes it easier to beat enrage even with deaths without lowering the healing requirement.
Solo duties are a joke, I don't think anyone really cares about those when you only have to do them once. Dungeon damage should be increased, the autos tickle even when mass pulling. Levelling dungeons like bardam's hit pretty hard but expert roulette stuff doesn't.
I don't think you should include pre-stormblood stuff as those were balanced around having cleric stance, with a main healer and off healer. And what about midas? Was J-wave not hard to heal? In ARR a lot of healers were just standing around doing nothing anyway.
It seems that SE wants damage to always be tied to mechanics. You won't get a raid with almagest ticking the whole time just to push up healing requirements since that isn't really a mechanic, just a healcheck. TEA's nisi was kind of like this but the damage it did was trivial so it only mattered during photon as it forced you to shield beforehand. More damage means more mechanics which is why it's possible in fights like TEA's living liquid but savage can't have that frequency of mechanics, at least the first few floors.
As for adding separate damage buttons, I think a 1-2-3 combo or just having more dots is pretty boring. AST is in a good place right now as the cards offer a lot of room for optimization and stuff to think about while you're pressing malefic. WHM to some extent is interesting due to lilies being tied to movement but SCH suffers the worst in this department with having almost nothing to do while broiling. But I can't really say that all healers are just 12111 when there are only 3 healers in the game. -
02-17-2021, 12:46 AMItMeInteresting idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovasin
If the aim is to run the content at min iLV (and thus not really engaging in the gear prog) what do you think would be an enticing and appropriate alternate reward? -
02-17-2021, 08:55 AMDogempireSure, I agree with you there, but that's 2 fights out of how many total raids, trials and dungeons?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovasin
Making 1% of content interesting and leaving the other 99% boring isn't a fix, it's just lazy design -
02-17-2021, 06:14 PMIrenia
If my group decides to farm Titania for the mount, I should not be dreading the coming boredom.
This is the problem with healers. With DPS and tanks, going to content you overgear and overskill does not feel as bad as doing so on healers, and this lies entirely on the dps kits each role has.
I suppose healers can gimp themselves, but then there is a conflict between having fun and being optimal, which is a design failure. -
02-19-2021, 12:45 AMBhearilThat the big issue on this expansion: Gameplay is being boring and stale as hell, and sadly is not related to healers only. Its not a matter of the encounters but of that most jobs are simply unfun to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenia
You can see DPS Tanks and Healer forums are filled with complains. On DPS is monk and range dps mostly, on Tanks Warrior and DRK mostly but aplies to tanking in general also, and the situation is quite grim with the sheer ammount of issues.
Unless Endwalker improves general gameplay a LOT FF14 is geting more and more a game of "play the story then leave until new content arrives". If i werent keeping my house i would subscribe even less something which saddens me :( -
02-19-2021, 01:00 AMKDSilver
"Recently I’ve received feedback saying “There’s nothing much to do for healing” from the healers so we’ve increased the attack intensity on Eden Promise Savage"
As much as I enjoy Savage... it's fine to increase damage in these but, that's not the only content where it should be adressed. -
02-19-2021, 01:18 AMDeceptusSeriously, the tuning shouldn't be for some of the hardest content in the game that MAYBE 10% of the player base complete.Quote:
Originally Posted by KDSilver
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02-19-2021, 10:45 PMLastelliThe problem is that even in savage healing is very minimal. I took a look at my static's first clear of eden promise savage and, as a whm when I was playing super safe with a lot of overhealing, I spent less than 20% of my GCDs healing (including afflatus skills ofc). That was week 1 when we were all undergeared, and that's the most healing intensive fight of the current savage tier. That's way too low. Now, with BiS gear, my healing - offensive GCD ratio is <1% on AST. And the most skilled healers manage to do 0 GCD runs with perfect oGCD planning.Quote:
Originally Posted by KDSilver
I mean...this cannot be what healers are supposed to be.