Which Ascians are left? (Spoilers up to 5.4 obviously)

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

had a thought: fandaniel's motivation of killing everyone could be his true goal including whatever is on the moon and zodiark/hydaelyn

so it will appear to be a sbuversion at first with zenos and zodiark, we win ofc, then it turns out nope- he just wanted everything to burn after all and his death was the beginning of plan b and fandaniel wanted zodiark gone too so that his death was permanent

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Well, this has aged like fine wine. You were right on point!

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Originally Posted by Aline_D

Well, this has aged like fine wine. You were right on point!

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I'll always grant generous points for mostly correct guesses anyway, but I think the one inaccuracy is that there wasn't actually any subversion at all. Fancy Dan was actually very open and direct about what he wanted to do, he just didn't divulge all the steps. The only subversion came from us the players, who by and large looked at his stated motivation and went 'surely it's not that simple'.

Personally I believed him, but wasn't posting here much at the time. He's an Ascian, they survive normal death and we're the type to hear that sort of crisis and go 'oh no we can help' and 'surely there's good in you', which isn't helping him at all, so the only way he can commit suicide-by-WoL is by going as hard as he can.

Emet-Selch is immortal and therefore can never really die. He's the most powerful mage ever. His death was an illusion.
Emet has to return.
Yoshi, don't break my heart.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

I'll always grant generous points for mostly correct guesses anyway, but I think the one inaccuracy is that there wasn't actually any subversion at all. Fancy Dan was actually very open and direct about what he wanted to do, he just didn't divulge all the steps. The only subversion came from us the players, who by and large looked at his stated motivation and went 'surely it's not that simple'.

Personally I believed him, but wasn't posting here much at the time. He's an Ascian, they survive normal death and we're the type to hear that sort of crisis and go 'oh no we can help' and 'surely there's good in you', which isn't helping him at all, so the only way he can commit suicide-by-WoL is by going as hard as he can.

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My only point of contention with Flapdoodle is how it was made to appear as if he was manipulating Zenos into freeing Zodiark when really Zenos just couldn't be arsed to care.

Villains in this game are always built up to be more than what they turn out to be and it's kind of annoying.

I have a habit of following precedent towards the right questions to ask, and then the thing that "can't happen" happens specifically because at the last second they undermine the very thing I was focused on, so I'm having a BLAST, lol.

Even in this very thread, I'm highlighting how Elidibus has been disintegrated so "Even if his aether was consumed by the tower rather than the sea, the integrity of his soul is compromised, so how can he not be gone?"

And then Endwalker is like, "Well, that's true, buuut..."

I was so stoked when Endwalker validated that so long as Fandaniel identified as Fandaniel his tempering should have been restored (assuming Eden told an accurate story).
For 10 seconds.
Until he revealed he had been rejecting Hermes and identifying as Amon all along.

"......Oh, no."

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Until he revealed he had been rejecting Hermes and identifying as Amon all along.

"......Oh, no."

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'Oh no' for two different reasons, because Amon was so very much worse than Hermes. Hermes was mostly very nice and well-meaning, he was just out-of-step with the society around him and more than a little depressed. Amon was confirmably an absolute monster even BEFORE he got Ascian'd..

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I have a habit of following precedent towards the right questions to ask, and then the thing that "can't happen" happens specifically because at the last second they undermine the very thing I was focused on, so I'm having a BLAST, lol.

Even in this very thread, I'm highlighting how Elidibus has been disintegrated so "Even if his aether was consumed by the tower rather than the sea, the integrity of his soul is compromised, so how can he not be gone?"

And then Endwalker is like, "Well, that's true, buuut..."

I was so stoked when Endwalker validated that so long as Fandaniel identified as Fandaniel his tempering should have been restored (assuming Eden told an accurate story).
For 10 seconds.
Until he revealed he had been rejecting Hermes and identifying as Amon all along.

"......Oh, no."

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This is honestly where the game jumped the shark for me. Time travel shenanigans aside, the moment they decided to have Elidabus stay intact called a lot of established lore into question. Even by revealing Emet and co as mostly intact and able to be recalled by the WoL felt sloppy to me. It just screamed “there is a way to being back dead ascians, but thank god the ones you do bring back don’t care about living anymore”.

God forbid someone figures out how to bring back Lahabrea, because for all we currently know it is entirely possible he’s just hanging out in the life stream.

I’ve written it elsewhere, but sometimes it’s better to just let the story be the story as planned from the beginning (aka being ring to mount doom; defeat the Fire Emperor) and NOT a 11th hour Scooby-Doo enemy that requires massive shifts in established lore.

I enjoy the game for what it is, but doing lore speculation really lost its luster on the grand scheme of things when the rug constantly gets pulled out from under you.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

This is honestly where the game jumped the shark for me. Time travel shenanigans aside, the moment they decided to have Elidabus stay intact called a lot of established lore into question. Even by revealing Emet and co as mostly intact and able to be recalled by the WoL felt sloppy to me. It just screamed “there is a way to being back dead ascians, but thank god the ones you do bring back don’t care about living anymore”.

God forbid someone figures out how to bring back Lahabrea, because for all we currently know it is entirely possible he’s just hanging out in the life stream.

I’ve written it elsewhere, but sometimes it’s better to just let the story be the story as planned from the beginning (aka being ring to mount doom; defeat the Fire Emperor) and NOT a 11th hour Scooby-Doo enemy that requires massive shifts in established lore.

I enjoy the game for what it is, but doing lore speculation really lost its luster on the grand scheme of things when the rug constantly gets pulled out from under you.

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But...but, the "What a twist!" factor is my groove. Waiting for Emet...

Am I the only one that thought that there is more to this map selling guy (Zasshal) than meets the eye?
At first glance he just seems like a swindler that sells maps that may or may not be real.
But not only was his map legit, it also contained magic that literally opened up the way to Vrtra's hidden vault, which I believe no one would have expected.

Let's also not forget that Emet Selch knew of Alzadal's legacy, and if Emet knew about it, chances are that other, surviving ascians also know about it.
My theory is that Zasshal might be a sundered ascian that wanted us to find the void gate, for whatever reason.

Also: is it just me, or is this guy's face / hair unique? I haven't seen any other NPC that looks like him
https://imgur.com/44P713t

Apparently Zasshal is also a character from FF11, which I don't think is a coincidence.
There must be more to this guy than just being a throwaway character.

Alzadaal's Legacy itself is a XI reference to the Alzadaal Ruins so...I'd say probably not.

I'm more curious about what the deal with that voidsent-obsessed Gridanian dollmaker is given that we've now gotten two optional MSQ references to them in 6.1 and 6.3 via the restricted archives and a note in Laps Manalis.