[Suggestion] FFXIV punishment system rework

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

The person initiating the vote kick is the 1st person. The other two that aren't you are #2 and #3. there fore it is 3 vs. 1. If you're always the person getting kicked, the problem may be you, no?

Also if anything is said in the chat that might indicate they are dumping you for a friend of theirs (say at like the last boss of the dungeon) you can report them for abuse of the vote kick system.

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Ok, let's do the math together.
How kick works:
#1 One person should initiate vote and his vote is auto - YES
#2 Second person votes for kick - YES
#3 Third person votes for NOT kick - NO
#4 Person against whom vote initiated do not votes so his opinion not counted

Now let's do calculation:
YES = 2, NO = 1 (+1 if we count #4 as innocent by presumption of innocence)
2>1, so #4 person get himself kicked
So in reality u need only two votes and this is really mater of who started shooting first.
But if we do math getting in mind vote of #4 person it is:
2>2 that is wrong, so persons should be kicked by majority of 3

As I said earlier, I had myself kicked less than 10 times in whole gaming experience that less than 1% of all my experience and near error rate.

so just because the possibility exists that you *might* get kicked for any reason, you want to change the whole system? just because "it's an inconvenience". laughable. not gonna happen. system works as intended. if you don't like it you're gonna have to lump it. if you can't lump it because "oh boo hoo I don't wanna have to deal with it" then get out of here. please.

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Originally Posted by Abyss_me

As I said earlier u need only 2 persons to vote 'kick', not 3.
And this vote is surely court case ~ social situation of Lynching.

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are you really comparing being vote kicked from a dungeon to being hanged in the public street by a mob where they then take pictures of the dead body and make those photos into postcards? because that is what lynching was

Not exactly a fix. But at this point with the way leveling is a little unbalanced and pointless for gear. I suggest the equivalent of Astral earrings for all slots up to current expansions. Which is something they should have looked into instead of the other fix they put into place which still doesn't promote very good gear progression while leveling.



What about the crafters you say. Just from leveling an alt to 50, doing no side quests, except the essential ones for opening content. I was almost always 10 levels above. Making open world quests trivial and not worth upgrading gear. So really only needed it for a dungeon. Dubgeon drops are worthless since again 10 levels past it. Go to the MB you say. The MB items do not line up with what you make questing. Even vendor price on some of the stuff you can get isn't really in line. You simply level way to fast to build up extra gil. Crafters also don't need the exp from crafting a million ingots any more. The game has streamlined that.



The attitude thing will always be around. You don't like them they don't like you. You want a run in 10 minutes because you don't want to socialize and they want a 25 min run and a chat. It is the internet and personalities will clash. Also he idea that players will police themselves. This isn't 2001. Where you get a bad name and never get a group again you get randos and never have to play that nice.

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Originally Posted by Abyss_me

And yes, I've experienced kick just because 2 persons was in party and they wanted to invite 3rd one in active duty.

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Well? You have found a legitimate reason to report them, then? Did you do that already?
Otherwise, current system is working as intended: preventing abuse.

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Originally Posted by Abyss_me

Opinion of kicked person does mean because we have "Presumption of innocence" so that person can't be found guilty before guilty if proofed.

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No, it does not matter.
There's a reason why the kicked player do not suffer 30m penalty, unlike being the first to abandon the duty on their own whim. Guilty or not, on the flip side they are also given the leniency to -immediately- queue back into DF, in hoping they'll get a better group that clicks with them.

'What if they abuse it by <insert abuse>?'
There's the other side of a coin. The game gives you a tool to report a legitimate abuse. Use it.

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Originally Posted by Abyss_me

Ok, let's do the math together.
How kick works...

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Uhh no. :confused:
How do we start a vote kick in the party again? Open the party interface --> find the player's name --> right click & select 'vote kick' opt. Now this is where your 'math' starts to fall apart: why would you start the vote if you -don't want- to vote to kick that person?

Bringing up the vote itself is same as saying 'Excuse me, I wish to show this person the exit door. What do you (other two member) say?'. You are clearly stating your intention and why (1 from 4 opt of reason to kick).
According to your 'math', however, it works more like: 'Excuse me, do you want to get out of here?'. Your intention here is vague & the subject's opinion suddenly matters.

No, it just won't work like that. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Not exactly a fix. But at this point with the way leveling is a little unbalanced and pointless for gear. I suggest the equivalent of Astral earrings for all slots up to current expansions. Which is something they should have looked into instead of the other fix they put into place which still doesn't promote very good gear progression while leveling.



What about the crafters you say. Just from leveling an alt to 50, doing no side quests, except the essential ones for opening content. I was almost always 10 levels above. Making open world quests trivial and not worth upgrading gear. So really only needed it for a dungeon. Dubgeon drops are worthless since again 10 levels past it. Go to the MB you say. The MB items do not line up with what you make questing. Even vendor price on some of the stuff you can get isn't really in line. You simply level way to fast to build up extra gil. Crafters also don't need the exp from crafting a million ingots any more. The game has streamlined that.



The attitude thing will always be around. You don't like them they don't like you. You want a run in 10 minutes because you don't want to socialize and they want a 25 min run and a chat. It is the internet and personalities will clash. Also he idea that players will police themselves. This isn't 2001. Where you get a bad name and never get a group again you get randos and never have to play that nice.

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Oh, your idea is really cool! I want to point that SE actually tried to solve this problem by placing merchants with all gear from level 1 to 50 in all major city states (like it is in FFXI) + by adding gear shops in every addons. Problem is that new players can hardly find this shops and does not feel necessity to upgrade.

Friendly reminder for everybody that we just discuss system, it pross and cons, how it could be improved and why do we need it. So try to be polite and don't try to get on personalities.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Well? You have found a legitimate reason to report them, then? Did you do that already?
Otherwise, current system is working as intended: preventing abuse.

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Yeah, as I saying current system suffer from abuse. I understand that support ticket should be filed on this occasions but it's time consuming nervous procedure where u should provide a lot of evidences, timestamps and etc. It's not something u should do in game to get enjoyment.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

There's a reason why the kicked player do not suffer 30m penalty

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But u know too about cases when players waited for 40~50 mins in que to be votekicked from duty on final boss just because, aren't u? It's very frustrating experience.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Bringing up the vote itself is same as saying 'Excuse me, I wish to show this person the exit door. What do you (other two member) say?'. You are clearly stating your intention and why (1 from 4 opt of reason to kick).
According to your 'math', however, it works more like: 'Excuse me, do you want to get out of here?'. Your intention here is vague & the subject's opinion suddenly matters.

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I'm saying that
Party_1(#1, #2) can abuse system kicking anyone from Party_2(#3,#4) and vice versa

Duty of 8 people.
1 person is being a dick.
7 people don't want to play with the dick.
Who should have to leave?

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Originally Posted by Abyss_me

I fully agree with u that existing punishment system is shackles people living and such expectations lead to toxic witch hunting behavior. That's why I created this thread in 1st place.

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I meant entirely in response to how you were regarding others, not how the game is. The way of reducing how and why they might want to play, including ways you may not recognize or understand.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Duty of 8 people.
1 person is being a dick.
7 people don't want to play with the dick.
Who should have to leave?

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Its worse when you think about alliances... Clearly the Op is in the mind set is in
1 person is being a Dick
23 people dont want to play with that one person
23 people should leave and that one person should keep drawning in more people into what is essentially a trap party.