Player's Poll: FFXIV or FFXI-2?

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

Yes that is what I'm saying. FFXI was the last "old school" MMO to retain a high then average difficulty and was very unforgiving when it came to its day to day play experiences. WoW came out near the same time and we've seen how it has impacted the MMO world. Everyone strives to copy their success which was largely in part to easier content and fast rewards. It has contaminated developers mindset and instead of making their platforms geared towards to older MMO generations they have adopted a more casual friendly archetype.

I would happily still be in FFXI if Abbysea had not ruined it. That single expansion undid 7 years of the delicate balancing act SE had preformed to keep new gear attractive while not antiquating old pieces of lewt. Nor did the new jobs make useless others since there was much sidegrading and swappable jobs which could fit multiple roles. FFXIV failed as hard as it did because it was rushed. Adding to its unfinished woes however was the ever present casual mode leveling outline. It was clear they were trying to make it so people with less time could keep pace with those who could dedicate more to their character.

I want FFXIV to become more like it predecessor. Less like every other MMO on the market today. I just found it funny you told me that if I didn't like FFXIV to go play a WoW clone which is the exact thing I am trying to avoid.

Not everyone is trolling you Arcell :P

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Part the reason why your poll failed is because you are bias to one side in particular, now I'm not saying you couldn't successfully create a good poll if you put your mind to it, but as many said it was one or the other, and there was no room for compromise.

I think you will find that the majority of people (and I'm not talking about the majority who are playing now or even visit these forums) want something in the middle, somewhere between FF11 and WoW.

And to be honest it seems that's pretty much what we will be getting.

Yea SE ruined FF11, time to get over that and move on.

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

Yes that is what I'm saying. FFXI was the last "old school" MMO to retain a high then average difficulty and was very unforgiving when it came to its day to day play experiences. WoW came out near the same time and we've seen how it has impacted the MMO world. Everyone strives to copy their success which was largely in part to easier content and fast rewards. It has contaminated developers mindset and instead of making their platforms geared towards to older MMO generations they have adopted a more casual friendly archetype.

I would happily still be in FFXI if Abbysea had not ruined it. That single expansion undid 7 years of the delicate balancing act SE had preformed to keep new gear attractive while not antiquating old pieces of lewt. Nor did the new jobs make useless others since there was much sidegrading and swappable jobs which could fit multiple roles. FFXIV failed as hard as it did because it was rushed. Adding to its unfinished woes however was the ever present casual mode leveling outline. It was clear they were trying to make it so people with less time could keep pace with those who could dedicate more to their character.

I want FFXIV to become more like it predecessor. Less like every other MMO on the market today. I just found it funny you told me that if I didn't like FFXIV to go play a WoW clone which is the exact thing I am trying to avoid.

Not everyone is trolling you Arcell :P

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The systems of FFXI didn't become the standards of the MMO genre for a reason. That's not to say they were all bad but a lot of them deserve to be left in the past. It was good for its time but that time has passed.

The genre is progressing and the direction it is going in is more accessible. You don't have to treat the game like a second job just to keep up, which is what I like about the game. FFXIV has always been advertised as being targeted toward a more casual audience than FFXI. The development has reflected this, especially since Yoshida took over. The game was never meant to be anywhere near as hardcore as FFXI and is not going in that direction. It is quite clear that they're trying to make it so people with less time can keep up. That's always been the plan. If you're really not happy with the direction the game is going in I would suggest finding a game you do like. The developers have changed some things here and there but overall they do what they want. It is their game after all.

The original launch of FFXIV failed because it was rushed, yes. However that's not the case anymore. Patches have been delayed multiple times because things haven't been just right, despite all the whining that goes on because of it. That's not to say that they're perfect but a majority of the changes have been positive, in my opinion.

You say you're trying to avoid this game becoming a WoW clone but in reality FFXIV is about as far as you can get from a WoW clone on the current MMO market, especially compared to a lot of new releases.

All in all though I want FFXIV to be what it is, not FFXI-2 or anything like it. FFXI had some decent systems that we could benefit from but it also has the potential to blow FFXI out of the water (for its intended audience). Why should we go back and settle with just as good as FFXI? I want FFXIV to be its own game and way better than FFXI because honestly I hated FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Zaaku

Yes that is what I'm saying. FFXI was the last "old school" MMO to retain a high then average difficulty and was very unforgiving when it came to its day to day play experiences.

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That's because it is poor business to have such a crappy game like XI. Even proclaimed "WoW clones" do better business than XI and XIV.

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WoW came out near the same time and we've seen how it has impacted the MMO world. Everyone strives to copy their success which was largely in part to easier content and fast rewards. It has contaminated developers mindset and instead of making their platforms geared towards to older MMO generations they have adopted a more casual friendly archetype.

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WoW is still the most hardcore MMO to date, XI has nothing on heroic raiding. The only thing XI fanatics latch onto is simply the fact that everything in XI took an obscene and ridiculous amount of time to accomplish. Time =/= difficulty. Yes WoW may have made everything accessible and in the more recent expansion packs things may have deteriorated into a repetitious formula, but it still has the hardest fights of any MMO on the market. WoW didn't contaminate developers minds, it simply showed developers what good system polish can do to a game.

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I would happily still be in FFXI if Abbysea had not ruined it.

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Still stuck in the past right? That expansion was completely necessary from what I have heard from non deluded people on the forums. It may have altered the game in some unfortunate ways, but you're completely ignorant of the longevity of the game if you think new players were going to jump into XI and deal with the insane time sinks and gross barriers that it presented.

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That single expansion undid 7 years of the delicate balancing act SE had preformed to keep new gear attractive while not antiquating old pieces of lewt.

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Loooooooool "delicate balancing." Ninja anyone? Whenever I think of SE and game balance I usually think of the word "broken" before anything else comes to mind.

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FFXIV failed as hard as it did because it was rushed. Adding to its unfinished woes however was the ever present casual mode leveling outline. It was clear they were trying to make it so people with less time could keep pace with those who could dedicate more to their character.

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FFXIV did not fail because it tried to accommodate "casual" players. It failed because it had the worst UI in history, did not launch with a hardware mouse, you cannot alt tab, does not have a delivery/mailbox system, worst server lag in any game history, worst leveling system of any MMO, terrible grinds, terrible "hot and cold" mini games, awful loot distribution, too high of computer requirements, awful billing services, terrible customer service, etc. Shall I continue? None of these reasons have anything to do with "CASUALIZING" the game like you claim.

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I want FFXIV to become more like it predecessor. Less like every other MMO on the market today. I just found it funny you told me that if I didn't like FFXIV to go play a WoW clone which is the exact thing I am trying to avoid.

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I want FFXIV to become FFXIV. I don't want it to become WoW, I don't want it to become XI, I don't want it to become Lineage, or Ragnarok, or Star Wars, or Hello Kitty Island Adventure MMO. I want it to be its OWN UNIQUE ENTITY, supported by countless years of Final Fantasy lore and cannon that people are drawn to in the first place.

Oh look! A dead horse! Lemme go get my bat.

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Originally Posted by Tibian

FFXIV did not fail because it tried to accommodate "casual" players. It failed because it had the worst UI in history, did not launch with a hardware mouse, you cannot alt tab, does not have a delivery/mailbox system, worst server lag in any game history, worst leveling system of any MMO, terrible grinds, terrible "hot and cold" mini games, awful loot distribution, too high of computer requirements, awful billing servers, terrible customer service, etc. Shall I continue? None of these reasons have anything to do with "CASUALIZING" the game like you claim.

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Are you quite so sure about that? I know I don't speak for a majority, but I am part of a percentage that did quit for this reason. It's funny, because all the other things you mentioned, I found a bit more tolerable and had it not been for the severe amount of 'casual' being thrown into the game, I would not have quit.

Zaaku, my favorite moogle prayer giving Roe.

Your poll is bias in wording. A or B are not the only options for these issues, nor do I wish to have them bundled in such ways. I like certain features from both and hate some from both. I wish it was that black or white.

It doesn't matter really what the players on the forums want. It really comes down to SE wanting to make more money. Now I know this isn't WoW but even WoW came out and said only 1% of their population is hardcore players, so doesn't really matter what people "want" because no matter how many threads get created with people wanting harder this and that, they are sadly the minority.

Also, I know this isn't one of those threads. Just stating the facts though between hardcore and casual.

Masochistic old-XI players, I swear.

Yeah I can list only the negative things from one game and the positive things from the other and make it look like a one-sided snore fest but what's the point?

Oh wait someone's done that already... :D

This is one of the worst "polls" ive ever seen. The OP really really stacks the cards against the second choice. It makes you feel like you have to be stupid to pick it- You make everything sound negative and inflict your personal feelings upon it. It ceases to be a fair, unbiased poll when you do that.

(By the way, as far as the leveling comments: you can cap a job in FFXI in a day or two. You can't do that in XIV at least not without paying someone to powerlevel you)