Simple Fix to PLD

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

OK, apparently you don't understand that 100-200 more Defense does not equate to 10-20% more damage mitigation. Not even for physical attacks, which is all that Defense effects, when at a negative dLv not to mention that it does nothing for magic-based attacks which matter much more.

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Take a hit from Chimera on your PLD and then on your DRG. (or for added fun, your BLM

Let me know your results.

I am interested in knowing what game it is you are playing.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Take a hit from Chimera on your PLD and then on your DRG. (or for added fun, your BLM

Let me know your results.

I am interested in knowing what game it is you are playing.

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Eat a breath/voice from Chimera on PLD and then on DRG.

I am interested in knowing what game it is you are playing.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Eat a breath/voice from Chimera on PLD and then on DRG.

I am interested in knowing what game it is you are playing.

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I'm sorry, when did we switch to magic resistance? I recall the conversation to be on physical defense.

Anyway...

If your entire basis for PLD needing a buff is magic resistance, then you should have said that.

Everywhere else, PLD is a better, and more versatile tank.

WAR is a better DPS/Tank hybrid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

I'm sorry, when did we switch to magic resistance? I recall the conversation to be on physical defense.

Anyway...

If your entire basis for PLD needing a buff is magic resistance, then you should have said that.

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DEF is still useless tho If you think def matters i dare you to go aggro an lvl 70 mob and see how far your def takes you. Dlvl is the onlything that matter in this game when it comes to DEF/Magic def.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

I'm sorry, when did we switch to magic resistance? I recall the conversation to be on physical defense.

Anyway...

If your entire basis for PLD needing a buff is magic resistance, then you should have said that.

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Please read.

I have been saying global damage mitigation from the beginning. I even liken my request to the effect of Sentinel: %-based damage mitigation. This reduces incoming damage, be it physical or magical, by a set % regardless of dLv and/or any other factors.

The part about DEF and it mattering more on lower level mobs is actually not entirely accurate. To generally say that "DEF matters more on lower level mobs" is a fairly accurate statement; however this has NOTHING to do with dLVL.

DEF is simply better the lower amount of damage you are currently taking. It doesn't matter what level the mob is relative to you or what you actual DEF rating is at the time. In general, if you are taking less damage, adding another point of DEF is better than a situation where you take more. This again has NOTHING to do with dLVL. If for some reason an R58 mob was hitting you for 100 damage and an R50 was hitting you for 200 damage, DEF would matter more for the R50 than the R58. Again, this is because the efficiency of adding DEF has NOTHING to do with dLVL. The main factor is simply how much damage you are taking.

If you want to see what dLVL actually does for DEF, fighting higher level mobs actually INCREASES the efficiency of defense with all other damage being kept equal. So if you have an R50 and R55 mob that both do 100 damage, adding 1 DEF actually is more meaningful for the R55 scenario than the R50. The reason people generally say DEF is bad on high level targets is because they have higher stats, hence do more damage. More damage taken = DEF matters less. But this really has nothing to do with dLVL and more to do with the fact they do more damage from higher stats.

Now regarding your actual argument, I think it still ends up being the same. Most high level mobs do more damage, so yes DEF does mean less. But again, I just want to stress that it's the high damage that makes DEF not as good - not the actual dLVL amount. I hope this clarifies things.

How about SE puts it on gear.

In the form of DEF and M.DEF.
EVA and M.EVA

Like, add whatever quantity would give tanks 10-20% damage reduction.

Oh, right, they already have that.

Disregard.

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Originally Posted by Kaeko

The part about DEF and it mattering more on lower level mobs is actually not entirely accurate. To generally say that "DEF matters more on lower level mobs" is a fairly accurate statement; however this has NOTHING to do with dLVL.

DEF is simply better the lower amount of damage you are currently taking. It doesn't matter what level the mob is relative to you or what you actual DEF rating is at the time. In general, if you are taking less damage, adding another point of DEF is better than a situation where you take more. This again has NOTHING to do with dLVL. If for some reason an R58 mob was hitting you for 100 damage and an R50 was hitting you for 200 damage, DEF would matter more for the R50 than the R58. Again, this is because the efficiency of adding DEF has NOTHING to do with dLVL. The main factor is simply how much damage you are taking.

If you want to see what dLVL actually does for DEF, fighting higher level mobs actually INCREASES the efficiency of defense with all other damage being kept equal. So if you have an R50 and R55 mob that both do 100 damage, adding 1 DEF actually is more meaningful for the R55 scenario than the R50. The reason people generally say DEF is bad on high level targets is because they have higher stats, hence do more damage. More damage taken = DEF matters less. But this really has nothing to do with dLVL and more to do with the fact they do more damage from higher stats.

Now regarding your actual argument, I think it still ends up being the same. Most high level mobs do more damage, so yes DEF does mean less. But again, I just want to stress that it's the high damage that makes DEF not as good - not the actual dLVL amount. I hope this clarifies things.

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My mistake.

Thank you very much for chiming in Kaeko. Good to know that despite the error in my statements, that Defense still ultimately less important against the stronger enemies that essentially are the focus of these adjustment proposals. For a second there I was about to question my entire collection of experiences in game which told me Defense wasn't helping me much against these powerful bosses like it did for mobs in general.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Let me spell this out;
WAR
has higher base HP
5 threat generation skills: (Voke, collusion, weaponskill, Flash, Dps)
3 Damage reduction skills: (Rampart Sentnel and foresight)
1 heal: Second Wind
Thats it... Thats all it can do.

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I dunno why people keep forgetting half the WAR abilities or their functions when making comparisons to PLD.

Antagonize- Increases Enmity per action similar to Sentinel
Second Wind- Can generate hate just like cures can.
Vengeance- Redirects 50% damage back at the enemy. (AKA -50% damage taken, comparable to Sentinel on PLD.)
Featherfoot- Can dodge an attack altogether.
Bloodbath- Heals you based on damage from your next WS.
Rampart- Can heal your HP = Damage done when you Crit, it's healing effect stacks with AoE's, and WAR's power increases as damage is dealt to you meaning more Enmity.

I know the hate argument is irrelevant as long as whomever is tanking can hold it, personally I haven't had an issue on either job. But I still think PLD receives the short end of the stick simply because WAR and PLD's defensive capabilities are not far apart from one another, yet the DPS gap is as wide as the Grand Canyon.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

My mistake.

Thank you very much for chiming in Kaeko. Good to know that despite the error in my statements, that Defense still ultimately less important against the stronger enemies that essentially are the focus of these adjustment proposals. For a second there I was about to question my entire collection of experiences in game which told me Defense wasn't helping me much against these powerful bosses like it did for mobs in general.

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Go get hit by a level 70 mob in full PLD AF

Then go get hit by the same mob in DRG AF.

Unless you can prove to me that DEF does not in fact reduce that damage. Stop making assumptions.