Ishgard Restoration phase 3 feedback thread

I really don't get the issues. It's a competition. Some people win, others lose. You don't die if you lose. And it's not the end of the world if you don't get the fancy title. O wanted to get one too, but i didnt have the time for that so... I didnt get It. Simple

Sorry in advance for a longer post, but I just wanted to share a few thoughts on this after competing in the Ishgard rankings for the first time this season:

- Ishgard ranking really comes down to time more than skill. Of course, MMORPGs in general are largely about time commitment more than skill in many cases, but when we're talking about the highest-end content (e.g., the ultimate fights for DoM/DoW classes or Feast ranking seasons for PvP), they are usually skill based, although you obviously need time to hone those skills. In light of that, it is a bit disappointing that to get the "Saint of the Firmament" title, which is effectively the "end game" content for DoH/DoL classes, you really just need to have a ton of time to devote to this. If the quarantine wasn't still ongoing and work from home a thing, there's no way we would've been able to put in the hours we did. As others have said, it would be nice if there were a different way to conduct the rankings that doesn't (for the most part) result in "more time = higher rank" regardless of skill. I'm not sure how they could fix this, but perhaps having crafts with ridiculously high quality caps that are impossible to achieve would allow for players to rely more on skills; e.g., they would receive an exponentially greater number of Skyward points for higher-collectability crafts. Adding in new Conditions may also help with this by increasing the complexity of the crafts. For DoL, it would be nice if they also based points off of collectible turn-ins and had you use your collectability-increasing skills so that gathering in Diadem for rankings wouldn't be such a mindless task. Perhaps they could even add new mechanics (conditions, etc.) to the gathering process to make it more skill based. I did DoH because, even though it was extremely repetitive, it was at least more engaging than DoL.

- I wish they didn't tie the materials for the expert recipes to Diadem. Unless you had someone feeding you or had a lot of time to server hop and go check prices, it could be pretty expensive to get the materials you need. Of course, you may get some of that money back by selling the items you buy with Skybuilder Scrips or Kupo of Fortune prizes, but it is still a bit annoying. It would be nice if the expert recipe materials were sold by a vendor much like the items for the weekly collectible turn-ins are. That would make the competition much fairer for DoH classes because it would be more about how well can you craft instead of how well can you source items. If, as I suggested above, the gathering classes also were changed for the purposes of Ishgard ranking so that they too must turn in collectible stuff, that would resolve the issue of "what will the DoL classes do with the green materials they gather?" If DoL classes also get to turn in collectibles, perhaps even they could participate in Kupo of Fortune and get those rewards, which are currently exclusive to DoH classes.

Man posts are really limited in terms of post length here... some more thoughts:

- The length of the tournament (10 days) isn't the problem. The problem is that, to be guaranteed a top spot, you have to try to keep up with folks who are going ham. I did that this time and it was really stressful / deprived me of a lot of sleep during the past 10 days. Implementing some of the aforementioned measure would probably help remedy this by limiting the number of hours that someone can be accumulating points per day and would make it a more skill-based tournament (instead of a time-based tournament).

- I do not think that hoarding is a "problem." This is a competition - you wouldn't get upset at someone beating you in the Feast just because they were using a strategy that is to their advantage. The same thing goes here. The fact that SE doesn't show the amount of points increased at the end of the ranking season may indicate that they are tacitly approving of this strategy (and trying to protect the folks that stockpiled from having this announced at the end). Also, people hoarding does not affect you at all. It does not prevent you from crafting more crafts. You are also able to hoard too if you want. It may cause the Firmament FATEs to pop at weird times, but those often pop at weird times anyway. So long as SE allows hoarding, I don't think it's an issue. I do agree that if the collectibles had a "timer" or something so that they would expire after a day or so, or if the points were counted towards your score as soon as you completed the craft, that would be nice and would also largely prevent this sort of an issue.

- I do not think that it is an issue that folks who already have the title are able to compete for it again, or that people are able to try to rank on multiple classes during a given ranking season. Perhaps they could resolve this issue by limiting the number of turn-ins you can do a day or something like that (which would also help resolve the problem with "more time = higher rank" instead of skill issue). In any event, if you lose to someone who is ranking on multiple classes, it either means that they are putting in more hours than you or they are crafting more efficiently than you.

- I am personally very sad that they decided to go with "Saint of the Firmament" again instead of "Saint Ascendant."

- I think that the title should be unique per season, just like mounts in the Feast are unique per season.

I managed to place 4th on BSM.

So at first I didn't think there was anyway there could be a bot for expert crafts but I have seen some screenshots and stories indicating there likely was a bot which is pretty messed up. Honestly, I have no faith whatsoever that SE will start doing something about the botting at this point when they've maintained such a lackadaisical attitude about crafter/gatherer/fate type bots since even back in ARR.

For me the most forked up thing about rankings is that people can place in the top 12 in more than one job. You can only earn the title of Saint/Achieve once so every subsequent crafter some one places in is a rewardless spot that could have gone to some one else. If some one is placing in multiple jobs I think the 13th+ ranked person should aslo get the title and achievement. But mostly I think that you should have to choose which crafter you're going to try to place in up front and then you're locked in to that for the duration of the ranking season.

Overall this was a miserable experience and I don't think the title/achieve is reward enough for the time spent but I gave up during the first rankings and regretted it so I knew I'd regret it even more this time.

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Originally Posted by Ashemmi

I felt bad for you Tymora. Two snipes did you in, the largest was the 740K one out of nowhere. The other 310K one was "expected", having seen how they scored last season.

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The 300k snipe fella did the same thing in 2 crafts...so 600k at least.

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Originally Posted by DoH

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what freaking skill are you talking about? The skill of searching in Google the best Crafting rotation and the best melds? Unlike Extreme/Savage/Ultimate, you aren't avoiding AoEs, you aren't dealing with status effects and long ass descriptions, you aren't dealing with insta-kill mechanics, or any kind of mechanic at all. Crafting and Gathering are all about pressing buttons and putting materia in your gear. That's It.

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Originally Posted by lolicon09

I really don't get the issues. It's a competition. Some people win, others lose. You don't die if you lose. And it's not the end of the world if you don't get the fancy title. O wanted to get one too, but i didnt have the time for that so... I didnt get It. Simple

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Nope. But you'll always live with the fact you missed the achievements you can never ever get again as long as you play the game.
It's a completionist thing.

Same deal when 1.0 ended. Achievements and titles that can't be gotten again. Not the end of the world but a sore point.

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Originally Posted by tymora

Nope. But you'll always live with the fact you missed the achievements you can never ever get again as long as you play the game.
It's a completionist thing.

Same deal when 1.0 ended. Achievements and titles that can't be gotten again. Not the end of the world but a sore point.

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How? Because you cannot brag about It? I mean, that's literally the only thing you can do with titles. Hardly something to get sad about

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Originally Posted by lolicon09

what freaking skill are you talking about? The skill of searching in Google the best Crafting rotation and the best melds? Unlike Extreme/Savage/Ultimate, you aren't avoiding AoEs, you aren't dealing with status effects and long ass descriptions, you aren't dealing with insta-kill mechanics, or any kind of mechanic at all. Crafting and Gathering are all about pressing buttons and putting materia in your gear. That's It.

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I wouldn’t really call doing DoM/DoW content in this game skill for the most part, either (except perhaps PvP). It’s the same thing for most people - go find some guide and figure out how to do it. Execution for most battle content in this game is wrote memorization of knowing where to stand and which buttons to press.

Anyway, you missed the point of my post entirely. I literally said that it’s disappointing that the high-end crafter / gatherer stuff is more about time than it is skill. There is still *some* skill involved for crafters because, even after looking at recommended rotations, some folks can churn out only 5k points per hour, whereas others can do upwards of 30k. It requires some thinking / math, so I would consider that “skill.” As I mentioned, I just wish that there were more conditions so that it would require even more thinking. My issue with DoL is that it doesn’t require much thinking at all once you figure out the optimal routes, and so it’s not engaging.

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Originally Posted by tymora

The 300k snipe fella did the same thing in 2 crafts...so 600k at least.

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That player was predictable. They ranked in BSM, ARM and fell just short of LTW and CUL last season. This season they got CRP, WVR, and fell just short of LTW and ALC. Not turning anything in on days 5 and 6 was a bit of a tell that hoarding was happening. Their scores have been just over 500 each time for their wins, I suspect they're going for the mount and the competition is an added bonus. That 740K one was entirely a blind side.