Why we have to rethink the way we allow Limited jobs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazrah

As long as there are whiny diehard fans of XI wanting XIV to be more like their precious first MMORPG rather than overcoming their Final Fantasy Syndrome and allow XIV to be its own thing, there will always be limited jobs.

I think it's not just how we allow limited jobs to be a thing in this game, but also how we can re-imagine jobs so that they fit the mechanics of this game and understanding that wanting a job exactly like how it was in past games in the series detail-for-detail is just too unrealistic. It's exactly why we got Blue Mage as it is: a square peg smashed into a round hole, resulting in something that doesn't fit and wound up as a damaged product.

That being said, I do like how Blue Mage is in XIV. Yes, I have my share of complaints about it like reworking a couple of spells and having a duty roulette catering exclusively to Limited Jobs both to help Blue Mages learn more spells and to promote a more suitable environment for any future limited jobs, but I like the job overall and how it can bring a small bit of life and fun to older content. It also makes me think about what kind of practical applications you could have with other limited jobs, how they can be used as a means of testing mechanics players otherwise wouldn't get our hands on, and how future limited jobs could expand on that indirect means of public testing.

As for those unhappy about limited jobs and wanting a job from a past game like XI, I'd ask you if you are willing to see some sort of compromise in the form of a possible re-imagining of that job: Beastmaster using a system that doesn't involve taming pets, Puppetmaster not using its XI customization stuff, that sort of thing. If you're not willing to or don't see any reason to compromise, then please look forward to your next limited job.

---

i can agree that compromise is necessary and that it shouldn't be an exact 1:1 to previous games. they can at least retain the spirit of it

Honestly the only real gripe I have about the limited job idea they did with BLU is that it caps at a lower level than everything else. The Duty Finder thing doesn't really bug me. However having to keep 1 set of lower level gear because of it is annoying in terms of wanting to optimize inventory space.

I would have liked to see far more complexity in the job though as well in terms of spell combos or what to slot in the active grimoire having an impact on build in terms of either stat bonuses or passives.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

DRK isn't a collectible focused job though, which is another problem. A job that relies on collectathon gimmicks in a game where people will kcik you for not having Swiftcast/Quelling/Provoke (before the Role skills thing, which is a response to the aforementioned kicks) is gonna be a problem,and I think for most, the collectible gimmick is the draw.

---

But it isn't the job or the collectathon problem, both can be easily adjusted for the current DF and the collectathon can have spells from 1 - 15 with approx 18 abilities/spells to learn from the starting zones (All of which is unique) all near the cities and can be easily accessible without progressing the main story line. Duty finder already has restrictions such as 'You must be at least level XX to participate' or 'You must have at least cleared XXXX once'.

I would rather suggest the ball is in our court where we, as a community have the problem. I was playing this game since ARR and I can vouch what Morningstar1337 said about people kicking players for not having certain role skill is somewhat true and false. In Tonberry we ever rarely have such incident (Either that or there was a lot and I haven't encountered them back then), I am not sure about american servers. But it isn't the job's fault, the fault lies within the community. Look at a recent example of Yokai watch event. Plenty of Blue Mages Abusing the use of Level 5 Death and Missiles and being impatient to other players, the solution is to wait 1 week for the hype to die down and it did. But it doesn't erase the fact of the matter is that whatever FFXIV's dev gives us, the community (Mainly the impatient and toxic people) tend to abuse the mechanics itself. We even had several instance where a small part of the community found an exploit and were banned back in Heavensward. I can't recall but I did remember having 3+ incidents in HW expansion, but I could be wrong.

Going back to Moringstar1337 case, it clearly proves that we as a collective community have created a standard and forced upon other players rather than the devs forcing upon us. If it was a static or a group of people aiming to clear the raids it's understandable, but when it comes to public play like duty finder then it is a problem we must resolves as a community.

I wanna ask a question to anyone who would be reading this.
Limited Job System is like a frame for a picture,
Blue Mage and its content such as its Masked Carnival, Blue Mage Log, Morbol Mount and its Allied Seal Rewards is the picture within the frame,
If you remove or replace the frame (with the normal job system) of the picture,
The picture will still be intact.
Did we truly lose anything of value at all?

Please hold on to your answer and lemme drop some info about recent events.

Regarding to the Yokai event, Limited job was meant to prevent the abuse of the class in any content outside of it own content. Well recently what has been happening is that people did use one shot or fixed damage spells on fates, during the Yokai watch event. Even the Blue Mage can queue in DF but via PF or undersized solo. Even if you limited the job it at current content, they can and always will be able to abuse the class itself. Limited Job did nothing to contribute or prevent such abuse, it only restricted its cap and its participation in DF normally.

Point being is that no matter how you circumvent it, this is an MMO (Massive Multiplayer Online) no matter what you do to try and restrict jobs it'll always circle back to the multiplayer aspect of things because the game is an MMO. Blue Mage has to be eventually balanced out for overworld content, and if that were the case why stop there? Balance it out for the entire of the game, as with the recent events that happened in the Yokai Watch event. People get frustrated as the moment they try to participate or even before they can reach it, the FATE is done. Even though you could party up with a Blue Mage, there were some cases of Blue Mages refusing to party up and be considerate to others. Doesn't matter if limited or not, balance is a necessity in MMO games and even then it is difficult to truly achieve a perfect balance of classes as we still need OP skills/spells to make a class unique.

Job in essence is a way to experience the content you're tackling rather than a content of its own. Throughout the FF series and its spin offs, their main selling point is the job system which offers a variety of ways for the players to enjoy the game however way they want and whatever class they want. This has becoming a trend in SHB, where unlike HW (Everyone doesn't want a Paladin) and SB (Nobody wants to play Samurai) where the meta is necessary, whilst in SHB it is not so much needed unless it is a progression party and even then, any class can clear any content.

Blue Mage has its own side of content however we still have group content achievements (Morbol Mount) and Blue Mage log, but it is forcing you to play an all pure Blue Mage party. This is forcing an experience on a player rather than allowing them to try out and freely enjoy content as a blue mage. Sure some may like it and personally I enjoyed it, but it would be more fun if we can just queue up normally with others in Duty Finder. This is because when we queue up for a random dungeon in DF, we don't expect everyone to play what we want them to play to have that optimized dungeon run. We just run it and farm it and even then we can pick whatever job we want to farm it with. The content is the dungeon itself, while the job we play as is the medium to experience the content.

So with that in mind have a look at the question and ask again, did we truly lose anything of value at all if we remove or replace that frame?

I never tried Blue Mage. I just didn't care about the whole "here you get a slice of the whole game, have fun". I'm looking forward to beastmaster more than anything in the game, but I'd rather summon a few fierce animals than try going around and taming a bunch of them. BLU should've been the same way, maybe even asking the community "What iconic blu spells would you like to see?" and then doing a survey. The devs could've collated that info and worked from there, still weaving it into the game and still including some iconic stuff for nostalgia but making it playable in current content.

As a new player to the game and franchise, the status of Blue Mage as a Limited Job really threw me off when I first learned about it. It seemed like such a cool idea and concept for a class, but limited to playing mostly by yourself or at best with other people of your class in a MMORPG, which felt contrary to the very idea of the genre for me. It also felt like a bit of a waste of time for me to go for it, as even though I like it more as a job than a lot of others, I cannot use it to play with my friends, so it's better off as something to put off for when I've done all the other jobs and content and have nothing left to do. It's a real shame and would definitely like to see it added a a normal job, rather than a limited one, even if it means balancing out its abilities.

I have been playing this and so far I am loving it, though I did try to play Blue Mage. I wasn't greeted well at the front of the door seeing that I need to find some friends and I am having trouble doing so since I am not really good at communicating with new people and getting the spells from the overworld is easy, the harder part was dungeons, trials and the raids since some of them I need a group of people with me. I can try to solo, but it just gets boring and it feels so slow. My friend even suggested me to avoid playing Blue Mage in FFXIV, mostly because its a mess of a job now when the devs said it is a solo job. Sadly I didn't heed their advice because I am a long time FFXI player and I really don't expect FFXIV to follow FFXI's Blue Mage. It still somehow disappoints me, that its restricted from current content or even queuing randomly. I mean... they got the Job identity spot on, with that being like learning spells and abilities from monsters and using them. But putting Blue Mage in a restriction on its own sucks... I really can't have fun with blue mage and it really sours my experience with it and I haven't even gotten all of the spells cause I can't find anyone to help me obtain the spells.

Sometimes i wonder why people play MMORPGs when they anyways want to play alone. Yeah skills are sometimes hard to get, require a group and a bit of teamwork sometimes. This game is designed not to play it alone, if you all want a singleplayergame then don't play MMOs.

Or get friends to do content with...it is seriously not that hard. But complaining about a non existing problem cause some content doesn't fit the own playstyle seems to be normal these days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ranaku

Sometimes i wonder why people play MMORPGs when they anyways want to play alone. Yeah skills are sometimes hard to get, require a group and a bit of teamwork sometimes. This game is designed not to play it alone, if you all want a singleplayergame then don't play MMOs.

Or get friends to do content with...it is seriously not that hard. But complaining about a non existing problem cause some content doesn't fit the own playstyle seems to be normal these days.

---

Well great for you for managed to easily get friends, that doesn't mean your experience is the same as mine. I am on a different data center than yours so experiences can vary, and I used PF and for hours no one came to aid me. Really I doubt anyone is playing blue mage as often as I hope they would, since i really love the class as I am a big FF fan. Also mind telling me what is wrong with me playing alone on an MMO, I can use DF just fine with my normal jobs and I wouldn't complain. If they did the same for Blue Mage then I would have enjoyed it much better and learning the spells would be a lot more easier. I also heard there are savage raid achievements and I am not into the raiding scene at the moment and I am busy with some in real life issues, so using PF was my only option and is the worse option.

I'd kinda recommend a new option in the Duty Finder that would run two checks and if both pass, then a BLU could find themselves in the party.
1) Have all members beaten the dungeon before on a normal class?
2) Do they wish to allow a BLU, if one is found, to join?

If both are a yes, then ta-da a blue gets to run out dated content. Which honestly, lets face it, as it stands they would probably only run it once for the sake of getting the skill or at least as I was told if its run synced the drop is 100%? If not, then they still get to run and the normal runs get spiced up a bit. No real difference than people selecting languages they don't speak to expand the pool.