Cinder drift critique: top heavy mechanics are the wrong way to go *minor spoliers*

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I haven’t had a chance to do normal or EX for Ruby Weapon, but what exactly is the problem with level 80 content (i.e., endgame content) requiring some semblance of competency from those attempting it? I think the endgame needs more challenging content that aren’t Extremes or Savage—there’s a huge gap between them and the other endgame content (alliance raids, normal mode raids, “expert” dungeons), and it could stand to be bridged a little bit.

I’d rather have more punishing mechanics as opposed to free-falling for 2 minutes dodging balls that don’t even kill you.

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It says a lot about Byakko when groups purposely stayed still just to see how many balls they could dodge without moving (almost all of them, hilariously. He's that easy).

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I’d rather have more punishing mechanics as opposed to free-falling for 2 minutes dodging balls that don’t even kill you.

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IMHO punishing mechanics are fine (vuln stacks) instant death or instant wipe ones aren't. They punish imperfection and that's a bad standard. You shouldn't have to be perfect in non-ultimate content.

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

I actually think the side content in this game should have gotten harder, sooner. Unless I am mistaken, this is the tightest DPS check outside of ex+ difficulty content, right? But it's honestly rather generous; first time I did it, we cleared the trial our first time even though we had a lot of people screwing up. The second time, we kept failing, and you could see why: PLD not using magic, healers not doing damage, DPS not using party damage buffs, etc. I think FFXIV needs some wake-up calls outside of ex/savage to get players to look into themselves and see if they can improve somewhere.

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Now now, we can't actually expect healers to be doing damage anymore. Especially in normal mode, the devs want healers to be healing not damage. That's the DPS's job. (heavy /s)

the mechanics for Ruby Weapon normal were easy to understand honestly, Phrase 1 was harder honestly, phrase 2 was uhh quite something cinematically but thats it.
I think the difficulty for what it was, was great! Also as HyoMinPark said punishing mechanics are better than what we are used to in normals.
It keeps ppl trying to figure out how to do the next mechanic properly etc, very fun fight imo!

The fight is fun and fine. Boss fights will always have mechanics to keep you engaged. This isn't a tank and spank. Get good or don't do it at all. You're not forced to do it anyways.

I've done the fight twice, both times in PuGs with mostly new people(second was roulette) and I'm honestly not seeing how this is hard content. First one had a few deaths and no wipes. Second had three wipes, each of which was to a different mechanic that were managed fine in subsequent pulls.

That sounds pretty much fine for the first few days of new content. I get the feeling a lot of people view ANY wipes as too hard/unwinnable with the current group, judging by how many people I've seen jump ship at the slightest issue in Eden Normal.

I've done the fight several times. Aside from initial wipes to quicksand, the trial is rather easy all things considered. Second phase imo is even easier than the first, and i did't know there was an enrage, until i've read about it here.

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

usually after a rather short time there a mostly groups that demand you to watch a guide, even if you open your own one it would not feel as without guide ppl feel like wasting their time...

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Of course, but like I said - that's the standard for any EX/Savage, so it's nothing new and specific to Ruby.

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Originally Posted by tdb

So instead you want lame, easily avoidable mechanics during which you can press your DPS buttons in a memorized sequence? God forbid having to dodge a mechanic and getting out of phase with the rotation.

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Straw men aside here... This is ironically enough exactly I feel about Ruby. Just to clarify my initial opinion I'm not complaining that the fight is too hard, I'm complaining that its too easy.

Once you know the wipe mechanics in phase 2 it's the most basic tank and spank or "faceroll" as some would put it that ShB has come out with yet.

I'll state it again, memorizing where to stand for X or wipe isn't good gameplay or good game design, unlike "mess up and enjoy your vuln stacks and see if you can recover"

There's a world of difference between the two, both punish mistakes, but the former punishes imperfection by any player to the entire party, while the latter can be compensated for by things such as a tank switch or on the top of their game healers provided the dps doesn't keep derping into bad to 4-5 stack land.

And in the case of Ruby or some of the other EX's i'll state this again, memorizing a wipe mechanic =/= skill or knowing ones rotations. It's why I laugh at people who say "you just want faceroll content" because they keep missing the point. What I want is content that is engaging and more to the point replayable because the fights have variety depending on the actions of players impacting the battle field (good and bad) instead of the battlefield impacting players by a must do X top heavy mechanic.

Ultima is a perfect example of a boss that provides this. You want getting thrown out of your rotation as a BLM main I can't think of a better boss to do that when she starts getting insane in phase 2. The same can be said of the bosses in copied. They require awareness of the arena, they require you to keep on top of your cooldowns, they make you think about how long can i risk standing here for that next fire IV.

They don't as I said, make you spend the first 10 minutes of the fight laying waymarks and choosing positions

They don't make me go "Oh so I dps down the add after the tanks spread them, i dps the comet after the tank catches it, and i dps ruby after, yawn."

They don't make me go "Oh so I stand right here perfectly so when puck knocks me back I break the vines so I can get back to my insanely tight dps check."

They don't make me look at a 2 part 16 minute video for Alpha 4.0 savage and go "Wow...diagrams, we need diagrams? Really?"

Side note, I fully agree with the sentiment about being forced to look at guides being annoying as heck. Given back in ARR my first experience with an EX was people wanting to kick me because I went in blind to Garuda. It's soured me on the content ever since.

TLDR? You can make hard content without adding cheesy wipe mechanics, that's actually hard content. Cinder is a failure in that regard.

A thread started with perfectly legitimate complaints about how ridiculously overtuned Ruby Weapon is followed by a predictable chorus of "GIT GUD!"

These forums are joke.

If a majority of people think its not overtuned, then you cant just stroll in here insisting that your opinion is right and everyone else is crazy. Wiping a few times on normal doesn't mean the fight is overtuned. If someone doesn't know the mechanic after a wipe, someone should explain it to them or they will catch on after seeing it once or twice.