Copied Factory

I enjoyed Copied Factory quite a bit, but I won't deny it's an unforgiving raid to run blind and for what I feel is the wrong reasons. Primary reason being: Stormblood and Shadowbringers did a lot to standardize AoE indicators and this raid just seems to ignore all of them, with highly punishing consequences for not guessing the AoE that is coming immediately. A close second being that the boss fights are quite long.

For those who left it frustrated due to constant deaths: Give it time. As more players get geared up over the next couple weeks, the boss fights will become shorter and generally more forgiving.

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Originally Posted by SoleilAlphi

compared to Rabanastre, the first of the Ivalice raids I found Copied Factory to be kinda bland in terms of story and even some of the boss' mechanics. The slow start may be intended but it feels too slow (in my personal opinion ofc). A quest or two more going more in depth with 2P's introduction would have been good

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I can see it. Am I the only one who found it really weird that nobody asked basic questions? Not even a "Who is this white-clad robot? Why are we following her into an unknown and hostile factory?" They talked about caution and hesitance to trust only after fighting a bunch of bosses together.

I've heard that the meat of the story is going to be baked into the second and third installments, but I agree it doesn't give us much to go on starting out.

Never played Nier, have read a bit - enough to get some of the basics and know part of 9S's schmeal throughout Automata - there's not a lot to grasp on unless you're invested in the series already. I appreciate having a quest afterward to go through and look around, as realistically how many groups will actually stop and look at the details of the environment? Still, feel like there could be more of a buildup.

Aesthetically, I vastly prefer Lighthouse and Orbonne, but that doesn't mean I dislike this setting at all - just preferred Ivalice's. The lack of voice acting hurts this raid, particularly with how the pods talk in Nier, all the machine-like tone or feel to it, just lost. The last boss would also greatly benefit from voices back and forth between 2P and 9S, not just on screen text. I feel that would have added a *lot.*

Mechanically it's sound. I enjoyed the first and second bosses the most mechanically. Mr. Biggum highlights a trend Square is slowly moving more towards (also briefly seen in E4S) of paying attention to actual boss animations rather than markers and effects. This is also seen in the second boss ala constantly watching your backside. Aaaand without some of the tells being obvious-obvious to react to, it means going in blind you'll have "gotcha" moments. Despite 'gotcha', I like it, but we are limited by our camera a fair amount - particularly for things that are happening a fair bit above us.

I feel like the last fight is actually the weakest in terms of mechanics. We've seen everything there, and it's not even mildly masked as anything different. I feel like it's all about the spectacle though, and the music alone makes it great for me. However, as wonderful as that music is, doesn't feel like it belongs there yet. The raid doesn't build itself up enough to have such a powerful culmination. That's final-final-boss kinda music, and the connection may be there if you know Nier and ending E, but otherwise it's just a really great song for a boss fight that you have *absolutely* no connection to yet. Compare it to SB's main theme coming in during the Shinryu fight that's had buildup for an entire MSQ.

All in all, it earns a pass from me. Not my favorite, but I certainly enjoyed it and will continue to do so. Story is not as gripping as it could be for non-Nier players, got a few neat mechanics and presentation of them. Trash fight has enough dodging going on that it doesn't feel as much like "group up and holy everything." Presentation of the last two bosses is pretty great, Weight of the World Prelude is phenomenal.

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Originally Posted by Verlyn

I can see it. Am I the only one who found it really weird that nobody asked basic questions? Not even a "Who is this white-clad robot? Why are we following her into an unknown and hostile factory?" They talked about caution and hesitance to trust only after fighting a bunch of bosses together.

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My guess is that players read up on a wiki or cutscene watched to Ending A, and stopped there. Never once touching NieR or Drakengard, and thus missing a lot.

I can imagine in the board room, Yoko Taro asking something along the lines of, "How many important Red dragons do you have in this game?"

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Originally Posted by Gula

My guess is that players read up on a wiki or cutscene watched to Ending A, and stopped there. Never once touching NieR or Drakengard, and thus missing a lot.

I can imagine in the board room, Yoko Taro asking something along the lines of, "How many important Red dragons do you have in this game?"

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I'm talking about the characters asking basic questions about their own situation. The dwarves only start to question 2P after the raid and she has to give basic information about herself unsolicited.

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Originally Posted by Verlyn

I'm talking about the characters asking basic questions about their own situation. The dwarves only start to question 2P after the raid and she has to give information about herself unsolicited.

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When you said "nobody" I assumed you meant players.

No worries, that's why I had to clarify :)

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Originally Posted by Verlyn

I enjoyed Copied Factory quite a bit, but I won't deny it's an unforgiving raid to run blind and for what I feel is the wrong reasons. Primary reason being: Stormblood and Shadowbringers did a lot to standardize AoE indicators and this raid just seems to ignore all of them, with highly punishing consequences for not guessing the AoE that is coming immediately. A close second being that the boss fights are quite long.

For those who left it frustrated due to constant deaths: Give it time. As more players get geared up over the next couple weeks, the boss fights will become shorter and generally more forgiving.



I can see it. Am I the only one who found it really weird that nobody asked basic questions? Not even a "Who is this white-clad robot? Why are we following her into an unknown and hostile factory?" They talked about caution and hesitance to trust only after fighting a bunch of bosses together.

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I felt that a bit but honestly the entire chain has felt pretty tongue in cheek and non serious so I guess I just mostly rolled with it. Such as the constant lampshading about how we don't actually have a choice in whether we go along with the dwarves etc. I havne't finished the quests on a second character yet but I also suspect

the choice of which dwarf to side with won't really impact anything either.

I half expect them to buck expectations on that choice somehow, to some degree, just because it's Yoko Taro.
We'll see, once the next raid comes along. I love that the aftermath of the raid was so involved, incidentally.

It's not my favorite.
It would probably resonate with me more if I'd played the game.

I like the music. It'll probably grow on me over the next 3000 times we'll run it.

I loved it. I really enjoyed the music... And the fact that it was punishing but it was not SO punishing that you were just insta-wiped?

Take Boss2? Even if the other Alliances just flat out die, you can still win? Unlike with other raids were 'those situation alliance deaths' almost always mean mechanic-forced wipe. Here, you can still win. And I really appreciate that they did that this time. All of Copied Factory is 'recoverable' even when people mess up pretty badly. So it can be frustrating, but it's not a 'wall'. I think it's well done, all in all.