Can we please ban advertisements for selling clears from PF?

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

I think the fact that you asked 800 or 8.00 was the thing that got you blocked to be honest as I am 100% certain you were not there to legit buy a run at that point, and so were the seller as well...

But no one here doubts they are selling for in game currency. However, SE needs to PROVE it, not by necessity because laws enforces it but because of the horrible PR nightmare it would give them if people came out and told stories about them getting banned despite doing nothing that was a banworthy offense in the game, and could back their claim up with proof while SE could not back their ban up because they don't have access to Discord's chatlogs.

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Which is why If they explicitly prohibit sale of content requiring Discord or other third party chat to disclose prices, it would be irrelevant at that point because they need to discuss their prices in game if they are selling.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

Trust me I had a feeling of the idea that it could be faked, no one really knows if I talked to the person (due to forced censoring) or if I made it up with an alt account or a friend.

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I do believe you, please understand that. It's just that we need to accept that this is how things are. If SE put measures in place to stop this kind of behavior then they would do far more harm to legit players than it would to RMT sellers. I have been part of legit clear sellers in the past (for gil and with no account sharing), and that kind of practice is as legit as paying for a crafter's services. They would suffer if restrictions were put in place, people advertising discord servers would suffer, and a whole host of other problems could occur.

The point is that putting down an iron fist is sometimes worse than just leaving things be. These sellers don't harm anyone, and if they do then they do it outside of SEs jurisdiction so theres not a whole lot that can or even should be done about that. Its not that these PFs aren't a problem, or that SEs ToS is a problem, its that wanting a solution to them is worse.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Which is why If they explicitly prohibit sale of content requiring Discord or other third party chat to disclose prices, it would be irrelevant at that point because they need to discuss their prices in game if they are selling.

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Here comes the problem, how would they PROVE that that is what discord is for and not for talking about the run strategies and ensuring you are actually capable of clearing the run before doing business? I would be as happy as anyone to get rid of RMT as I feel like it cheapens in game currency and causes market disruptions. However, I know why SE can't do certain things from a marketing point of view.

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

Here comes the problem, how would they PROVE that that is what discord is for and not for talking about the run strategies and ensuring you are actually capable of clearing the run before doing business? I would be as happy as anyone to get rid of RMT as I feel like it cheapens in game currency and causes market disruptions. However, I know why SE can't do certain things from a marketing point of view.

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Because that stuff can be talked about in game. The only reason to talk about things outside of the game is to avoid it being logged in chat. They won't even talk to you in game, they say discord or get lost. That's a huge flag.

Wether or not it’s a TOS violation to sell runs of content, it should be to list them in party finder. That tool is meant for social purposes and this kind if content is just profiteering spam cluttering up the interface. Let the form linkshells or something.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Because that stuff can be talked about in game. The only reason to talk about things outside of the game is to avoid it being logged in chat. They won't even talk to you in game, they say discord or get lost. That's a huge flag.

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They might want to talk about it in voice chat to be 100% sure the person know and guide them through the fight live. It is a huge flag, but nothing that is by any means enough to be conclusive grounds to ban someone upon unless they want a /vg/ thread like "SE banned me for no reason at all for carrying for Gil" and having the entire video game press jump on the train within hours as news like those are juicy.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

Wether or not it’s a TOS violation to sell runs of content, it should be to list them in party finder. That tool is meant for social purposes and this kind if content is just profiteering spam cluttering up the interface. Let the form linkshells or something.

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Depends, those people putting it on daily roulette should 100% be hit by a ban hammer, but if you properly put it into high-end content for savage, then it is 100% fine. It is a social purpose, despite being one that nets them gil.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

Wether or not it’s a TOS violation to sell runs of content, it should be to list them in party finder. That tool is meant for social purposes and this kind if content is just profiteering spam cluttering up the interface. Let the form linkshells or something.

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Actually the PF is for whatever people want to use it for. Selling items, running dungeons, advertising FCs, or forming a lalafell army, its up to the individual player what they want to advertise in the PF. Who are you to tell other players what they can or can't advertise?

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

Here comes the problem, how would they PROVE that that is what discord is for and not for talking about the run strategies and ensuring you are actually capable of clearing the run before doing business? I would be as happy as anyone to get rid of RMT as I feel like it cheapens in game currency and causes market disruptions. However, I know why SE can't do certain things from a marketing point of view.

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They don’t have to, requiring sale listing to discuss prices in game protects both seller and buyer, not to mention the obvious RMT avoidance. If a sale goes south they can then call a GM if someone doesn’t get paid, it’s a win win, well for legitimate players that is.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

They don’t have to, requiring sale listing to discuss prices in game protects both seller and buyer, not to mention the obvious RMT avoidance. If a sale goes south they can then call a GM if someone doesn’t get paid, it’s a win win, well for legitimate players that is.

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SE has to prove this unless they want extremely bad press. Can you imagine the outrage if someone claimed "I got banned for no reason at all" and SE had no grounds to refute those claims when there are already very sour faces about people getting banned for openly talking about using third party tools which are forbidden by ToS.

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Thats a dangerous precident to set. Nothing about asking to talk on discord is directly incriminating. There are many reasons why a player may do this,

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I prefer talking on discord than in game, especially if its someone ive never met before.

Squeenix and the 14 community have fostered an environment where speaking as little in the game about game related things is preferable.

Also, until they can give us fully customizable chat windows (that dont cap at 4...), I'll do all my crafting stuff through discord and NOT in game (outside telling people to send me their housing item needs somewhere other than game), because holy crap please make the chat system not strictly less usable than 20 year old MMO's, thanks.