The mentor system sucks, and here's how I would fix it.

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04-11-2019, 01:42 AM
Aramina

Quote:

Originally Posted by cicatriz313

My point is simply if the system isn't working there's no reason to keep it, and this system is anti-working imo. I would argue that the crown itself is probably the biggest problem of the mentor system, in 11 it was a giant ugly M and I don't think anyone would want that next to their name lol. Like if you're arguing it's a good system, that's your point of view and considering we are both on midgard I'd ask you if you've seen the NN, but that'd be viable. But keeping a system where people are both turning off new players in NN and demonstrating bad play by wearing the crown isn't the same as keeping a system that just isn't helping.

I don't have it on all of the time, but I do have it on sometimes. I've not seen much that I would define quite as a "cesspool", but perhaps I have been lucky and/or play at different times than you do. That said, I am not saying the system is great, I think it could definitely use some changes. I just don't think you should entirely scrap a system that does contribute to the game solely because of bad apples. Get rid of the bad apples to be sure, and create some ruleset that all mentors are obligated to conduct themselves under (more than just a "guideline"), but those can be accomplished without also canning the good parts of the system. I get it if you think it is all bad and no good, but all I can say is that has not been my experience and leave it at that. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

IMO, mentor system doesn't work because it has rewards locked behind it. Most mentors aren't doing the mentor roulette because they want to help people, most are doing it because it's a grind to a reward that they want.

If you really want to help people learn, a mount shouldn't be that push that you need to actually do it.

Now, I sure that most people who get into becoming a mentor think "I'll help people, and I'll get a mount - it's a win-win." and don't solely want to get in, and get out for that reward - but a grind is a grind, and I'm sure that attitude changes over time, which is why mentors are a running joke.

Honestly, I don't see it as altogether different from Role in Need bonuses. Both are a bribe to get people do things they may otherwise not do. We can argue that the mount is too tempting of a bribe, but I figure they made the reward what it needed to be to get people to queue.
04-11-2019, 01:59 AM
SenorPatty

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramina

It can be speculation at the same time as common sense. Either they already have enough to do and that's why they are all employed or they have time to do frivolous things, such as the OP mentioned, and as such would have likely been canned already because of them not being necessary. More time in their work day is not going to somehow magically appear, and any time spent vetting people will, by necessity, take time away from something else they would have been doing.

There we go again with the "time away from something" based purely on a schedule no one here knows how it's being managed. And that's the keyword here: how. If the argument is "they have enough to do", then where is the precedence to back that up. We only the "what" of it and that's it. Same goes for the other side of the argument that "time away from something". If you don't even know what that something is, how can someone postulate that would be a negative for SE or the playerbase?

At least, when it comes to explaining why something can't be done from the dev side, Yoshida and co explain the reason. I haven't seen a GM explaining why they can't do other things to set precedence over why we can't ask/suggest what else they could be doing. But if there is, pleae point me towards that reference.
04-11-2019, 02:06 AM
Vaer

IIRC they said they want mentors in the channel to be available at all times even on dead servers so they set the requirements to be lax.

Honestly, I feel like the player base takes this a bit too seriously. The crown just means they've been playing a while and perhaps they will be helpful in a non jerk way. That's it. If you assume anything more you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.
04-11-2019, 02:12 AM
Aramina

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorPatty

There we go again with the "time away from something" based purely on a schedule no one here knows how it's being managed. And that's the keyword here: how. If the argument is "they have enough to do", then where is the precedence to back that up. We only the "what" of it and that's it. Same goes for the other side of the argument that "time away from something". If you don't even know what that something is, how can someone postulate that would be a negative for SE or the playerbase?

At least, when it comes to explaining why something can't be done from the dev side, Yoshida and co explain the reason. I haven't seen a GM explaining why they can't do other things to set precedence over why we can't ask/suggest what else they could be doing. But if there is, pleae point me towards that reference.

I never said you couldn't ask. If you can find somewhere I did say you couldn't ask, please refer me to it. However, I did say it's not something that will likely happen as they already have a job to do. You can't just say "Oh here have some more work." If they wanted mentorship to be ruled by GMs then they would have designed it that way from the outset. Ask all you want, no one can stop that but when something is posted on a public forum you should expect just as many people to counter your points as those who agree with it.
04-11-2019, 02:13 AM
DumdogsWorld

I have a serious, unbiased question since I rarely deal with mentors, the novice network, etc etc.

One day I said into my FC chat that if anybody wanted help with clears related to Stormblood main-story dungeons, I would like to help because of boredom.

They said I should become a mentor because the mentor roulette gives "random content".

I responded by saying something along these lines (I don't have the chat log so I'm going off memory):

"I would need to be an exceptional player for that. The first step is knowing one's own limitations, correct? I don't consider myself a bad player, but I'm not exactly savage raid material either."

The first response was "I already like you better than any mentor"

That was a red flag for me. Are there *really* mentors running around who aren't....um...helpful?
04-11-2019, 02:15 AM
Aramina

Quote:

Originally Posted by DumdogsWorld

That was a red flag for me. Are there *really* mentors running around who aren't....um...helpful?

Of course there are. It's no different than anything in real life.. Are there cops running around who engage (or have engaged) in criminal activity?

Giving someone a title doesn't change their nature. It would be nice if it did, but unfortunately, that is not the case.
04-11-2019, 02:15 AM
cicatriz313

Yes. Yes there are.
04-11-2019, 02:18 AM
DumdogsWorld

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramina

Of course there are. It's no different than anything in real life.. Are there cops running around who engage (or have engaged) in criminal activity?

I guess I'm just a naive idiot.
04-11-2019, 02:23 AM
Ramziez

Quote:

Originally Posted by DumdogsWorld

I have a serious, unbiased question since I rarely deal with mentors, the novice network, etc etc.

One day I said into my FC chat that if anybody wanted help with clears related to Stormblood main-story dungeons, I would like to help because of boredom.

They said I should become a mentor because the mentor roulette gives "random content".

I responded by saying something along these lines (I don't have the chat log so I'm going off memory):

"I would need to be an exceptional player for that. The first step is knowing one's own limitations, correct? I don't consider myself a bad player, but I'm not exactly savage raid material either."

The first response was "I already like you better than any mentor"

That was a red flag for me. Are there *really* mentors running around who aren't....um...helpful?

It depends on the person as a lot of people stated a lot of people just become mentors for the mount rewards and not for helping others. Honestly I'm my case I don't even have mentor roulette unlocked since I cannot do ultimate or most savage content, and I just help out people whenever I come across them in my other roulettes and in the world when someone asks for help.

It is sad though because people like me who honestly want to help get the same bad rap as the bad mentors. Last night I actually had someone ridiculing me because I was a mentor during my leveling roulette run. I even partied with one of the randos that was in that run to do trials roulette, we got Seperot with like 2 or 3 newbies who never done it. I explained everything needed and got 3 comms from that run and it felt good. The guy from my leveling roulette run actually said I was a really good mentor.

Kind of a runabout way to say it but mentors don't usually get a good reputation with its current implementation.
04-11-2019, 02:38 AM
Colino

I think a lot of the issues do stem from just how easy it is to get to mentor status, even for someone relatively new to the game. At the same time, stricter requirements would just make the grind longer for some people, and if they're hell bent on getting there and not being helpful who's going to stop them from grinding a bit more than they would have to now?

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