Escalating skill requirements & FFXIV future

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Umm...the thing is, the OP is talking about a story trial you do solo, not any group content. The story stuff is one and done, and doesn't really matter if it's easy for people or not. I'm guessing the issue with the OP is that the end of the sadu part involves a lot of dodging and for whatever reason they just aren't good at it. Plus it has like five different phases. But again, this is a single fight that is one and done, and not really anything important to the game since it doesn't affect anything else. Depending on what the OP does in the game, it may really be an issue; if all they do is play for the story and do solo content otherwise, it can be a gate for them which they don't need.

Also, the constant fetishization of difficulty in this game is getting old. I don't mean in story trials, but I'm getting tired of the same old people thinking the only way this game is meaningful is if its hard, or that players need to be forced to do harder content for undefined reasons. Do you know how you hate Pagos? That's how people can feel when forced to do hard content, because Pagos is just another kind of hard difficulty centered around long-term patience. The game actually works as it is now, with people able to do the level of difficult content they choose freely. It's pretty easy to wreck this, because hard content in this game can ramp up in difficulty exponentially due to the 8 man party mechanic structure. So cut people some slack; you definitely will lose a lot more than you gain by asking for harder content forced on everyone.

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If they can't get past this, then sorry, but they have no business being in any of the group content that comes after it. And group content is actually required for the story.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

Personally I feel like we are paying subs so we're entitled to give feedback even if it's kind of nonsense like most of this complaint thread but by your own logic you're just supposed to accept any decisions the devs make and move on.

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You can give feedback. "I don't find this hard. I think this level of difficulty is at a good place and does not need to be reduced." That's feedback. What you're doing is attacking other plays because they do find it hard. That's not feedback for the developers. And you're trying to brush off *their* feedback as the crying of whiners.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

Wouldn't they feel much more accomplished if they managed to beat a fight they have difficulty with, rather than waiting it out to beat it once it's nerfed so they manage to do it through no extra effort of their own?

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You've never had to throw in a towel in a game because something was just beyond you? There's no guarantee they will come back once it's nerfed. Once you lose someone, it can be hard to get them back.

This is annoying me more than it should because this is not one but TWO threads of people complaining about a solo instance that isn't even hard. Come on people learn how to play the game already. You are given a healer type character with FOUR buttons. Would you like to know how many buttons a SCH, WHM, or AST use?

The Echo and whatnot exists for a reason. Patch story content is also usually completed easily in the span of a day so even if you do end up failing a solo story instance you can simply retry it, even if you're not practiced with the type of gameplay a healer has. Stop making a big deal over something that will only last for not even half an hour of your entire time in this game (or marginally longer).

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Also, the constant fetishization of difficulty in this game is getting old. I don't mean in story trials, but I'm getting tired of the same old people thinking the only way this game is meaningful is if its hard, or that players need to be forced to do harder content for undefined reasons. Do you know how you hate Pagos? That's how people can feel when forced to do hard content, because Pagos is just another kind of hard difficulty centered around long-term patience. The game actually works as it is now, with people able to do the level of difficult content they choose freely. It's pretty easy to wreck this, because hard content in this game can ramp up in difficulty exponentially due to the 8 man party mechanic structure. So cut people some slack; you definitely will lose a lot more than you gain by asking for harder content forced on everyone.

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That comparison is incredibly disingenuous. Pagos is in no way challenging. It's utterly mindless, and essentially the equivalent of fighting a target dummy. People enjoying more difficult content isn't a fetish, it's wanting something which isn't a complete faceroll because, quite frankly, it is meaningless otherwise. Look at the sheer amount of complaints over Thordan Normal. The epic conclusion to Heavensward has been mocked and laughed at by even inexperienced players because it's so embarrassingly easy you can't actually fail. Behold the dissolution of tension. When nothing poses a challenge, it robs the story of any weight. Shinryu can't be some godlike entity if you can faceroll him in five minutes.

We have talked about this endlessly, thus I reiterate. The reason this game ramps up in difficulty is because it has a horrible curve. Until recently, we've had extremely easy content suddenly juxtaposed with sudden difficulty spikes. That builds a lot of complacency since people expect everything to be easy when almost everything is. 4.4 actually did a better job avoiding this, though growing pains are going to linger for a time.

Put simply, how about people learn to perform a basic rotation instead of whining? Good players didn't become good overnight nor did they spend hundreds of hours perfecting everything. You can be good and have spent only a handful of hours practicing. What it boils down to is some people want everything handed to them, even if it means indirectly demanding better players carry them because god forbid they have to put forth an effort and learn themselves.

This is the second thread complaining about this instance, what’s the deal? I didn’t find it any harder than any other story instance, no special mechanics in the first half, and y’shtola only had 4 buttons one of them being a basically full cure in the second.

Maybe people who are ignoring their gear are struggling? If so, gear up, or fail a bunch and use the echo, you have options to make the fight easier. But comparing it to extreme content? Give me a break, I wouldn’t even compare that to hard mode primals.

Even if you do find it difficult, work on improving yourself and you’ll pass it eventually. This is a game, not a movie, if you can’t beat the fights you don’t get the story, that’s how games work.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

You can give feedback. "I don't find this hard. I think this level of difficulty is at a good place and does not need to be reduced." That's feedback. What you're doing is attacking other plays because they do find it hard. That's not feedback for the developers. And you're trying to brush off *their* feedback as the crying of whiners.

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Yes, yes I am brushing off their feedback. It is the crying of whiners.

I'm not receiving the money from their subscriptions, they aren't entitled to anything from me like they are from SE. If Yoshi-P popped into this thread and said the same things I did it would be inappropriate because he is providing a service for which the OP is paying. I am not.

It's clear that this level of difficulty is fine for the vast majority of players. If we always tune everything around the lowest possible skill level we won't have a game but instead just a series of cutscenes. I don't want that.

Make things harder. Give enemies we know as powerful some bite to their attacks. Magnai and Sadu are two of the most powerful warriors on the Steppe - a place where combat prowess is cultivated and prized via rituals like the Nadaam. We sought these people out as allies in a war. If they can't give us some kind of challenge then why did we care? If the WoL is powerful enough to let these guys beat on us endlessly with no repercussions ala Zenos what's the point of having allies?

These are our peers and as was mentioned by Hien in the recent MSQ they are powerful allies but you don't want them as enemies.

Let threads like this always be a reminder that deep in Amdapor Keep a sad and lonely Demon Wall is wondering whatever happened to his beloved pet bees.

I just don't have the heart to tell him the truth ...

The thing about the moon is really only the last phase with Sadu going nuts and the small dps check. I can see if a person struggles with fast paced action he might find it hard, or if he has limited ablity due to disabilities, it will be a bit rough. Generally, you only have to do a couple dungeons and one trial per patch for story reasons, and those can be done with friends. And those are slowly paced enough to let those players not to be that much of a burden; something like alphascape can be ignored since it doesn't really gate further progression. I don't think he's off on complaining if he meets these conditions. It won't get changed, but at least he can have his say.

I don't even see the point of those fights, they are just roadblocks anyways, and that particular fight was so pointless in the MSQ that I was shaking my head at it the whole time. No, we can't show you any more of the burn since we have no developers here, let's just rehash elements and mobs for a useless detour because otherwise we have barely any content in this patch. As for rotations, its kind of eh you all argue in one breath "it needs to be this way because rotations!" when the second part of the fight limits you to four buttons and won't let you play the class you started with.

The thing about MSQ instance combat difficulty is it doesn't even compare to the dungeons the MSQ requires you to run, so I have to wonder how their difficulty is fair, unless you expect to be carried through all of them that you do. At the end of the day, story or no, this is a game, not a book. Games have inherent challenge, and it is a good thing. There is a marked difference between something being challenging and something being "too hard". Rise to the occasion, you'll be a better player for it.