Treading Dangerous Ground

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

If you passed the advanced math class you would have known you can't compare apples and oranges.

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Much like you learn you can't ignore certain factors either.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

You're not looking at the big picture. In order for the game to have enjoyable lasting content, fundamental aspects such as combat, armory and UI changes had to be made first. They could have put in all the content under the sun in the launch version of XIV, but it would have been ruined by the crap UI, the crap battle system and the convoluted armory system.

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If anyone wants to argue against this, you can also take it up with Yoshi cause he said it himself:

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...98e4034b898102

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Originally Posted by Yoshi P

The issue that players would first like to see addressed is a general lack of game content, followed by changes to the battle system. Looking further, it seems that the type of content most strongly desired is quests and miniquests, accounting for about 40% of the responses. The auction house has also made a solid showing among the responses, no doubt due in part to the fact that, as previously mentioned, many of the pollees are or were FFXI players. My initial reaction was to interpret this as players stating that they want more adventures in Eorzea! More gil and loot!

In line with this, I believe that significant changes to the battle system are necessary to create a style of combat that lends itself to the enjoyment of quests and miniquests. Following that logic one step further, it is equally necessary to bring about significant changes to the user interface to create a UI that lends itself to the enjoyment of the battle system. After all, there is no point in making thorough improvements to battle if the response and usability of the interface isn't capable of conveying those improvements to players.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

You're not looking at the big picture. In order for the game to have enjoyable lasting content, fundamental aspects such as combat, armory and UI changes had to be made first. They could have put in all the content under the sun in the launch version of XIV, but it would have been ruined by the crap UI, the crap battle system and the convoluted armory system.

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the point is they were trying to say that the majority voted for one thing when using their own numbers showed their statement was incorrect. i didn't say they were doing things wrong by doing the changes the order they are doing them. i pointed out their statement was wrong and they did not go strictly by the poll results nor should they.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Much like you learn you can't ignore certain factors either.

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yes, the factors were they voted for overhaul over either releasing things faster or talking more. that's not much of a choice. once they were compared side by side with content the majority voted there. yoshi even admits himself people voted for that first, but was unable to do that. it was not a bad decision on his part to fix the game first, but don't act like the poll was followed by the numbers completely because they were not.

as i already stated i am not saying they are wrong by going in the order they are doing things. i just stated they shouldn't have followed the numbers myself, but i'm not trying to pretend they are. they have reasons for not doing it, but then don't turn around and act like they are.

I agree 100% with OP. Yes, the problem is not the fact they're considering the change, it's how and why. A server merge is a big deal in any MMO, and affects a lot of people. But it seems they're trying to please the "vocal minority" this time around.

And before anyone says "everyone hated option 4", here's a little thing:

Why does Yoshida hate linkshells/communities? [25 likes to OP]

Thanks for ruining the only experience that keeps me playing. [37 likes to OP]

Petition to reveal Server names before transferring! [46 likes to OP]

Thread: A history in server merging - Why SE is creating an overcomplicated mess. [42 likes to OP]

So, in 4 different threads that basically are talking about the same thing, we get no more than 50 likes in the OP. Last time I checked on my server alone (Wutai), I can find at least 200-300 people at any given time.

Now, I know that the number of likes does not give a real indicator of how many people agree with the thread/idea, but it still shows that only a handful of people decided it was worth it's time to do a simple click on the OP.

Whatever SE does with the merges, I'll stay. But I am paying for a game developed by SE, not a community project.

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Originally Posted by Kaizlu

I agree 100% with OP. Yes, the problem is not the fact they're considering the change, it's how and why. A server merge is a big deal in any MMO, and affects a lot of people. But it seems they're trying to please the "vocal minority" this time around.

And before anyone says "everyone hated option 4", here's a little thing:

Why does Yoshida hate linkshells/communities? [25 likes to OP]

Thanks for ruining the only experience that keeps me playing. [37 likes to OP]

Petition to reveal Server names before transferring! [46 likes to OP]

Thread: A history in server merging - Why SE is creating an overcomplicated mess. [42 likes to OP]

So, in 4 different threads that basically are talking about the same thing, we get no more than 50 likes in the OP. Last time I checked on my server alone (Wutai), I can find at least 200-300 people at any given time.

Now, I know that the number of likes does not give a real indicator of how many people agree with the thread/idea, but it still shows that only a handful of people decided it was worth it's time to do a simple click on the OP.

Whatever SE does with the merges, I'll stay. But I am paying for a game developed by SE, not a community project.

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The only thing those numbers proof is that some posters out there liked that Op's post. You can't use those numbers to proof opposite statements. And you can't even be talking about a vocal minority because you have no data to support this.

You know, there is another thing about the merge that many are not even bringing up. The fact that option 4 was gone with so that it is easier on the development team and NOT the players. That is where the outrage lies.

It partly doesn't even matter who is doing the speaking for the community as primarily we're just calling the development team out on their s#!%. Sorry, we're paying customers now. They have to start working a little more on customer service and they have now after the global backlash and we got what we wanted.

OP is right, this is a dangerous precedent. Polling data is needed, period.

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Originally Posted by Kaizlu

I agree 100% with OP. Yes, the problem is not the fact they're considering the change, it's how and why. A server merge is a big deal in any MMO, and affects a lot of people. But it seems they're trying to please the "vocal minority" this time around.

And before anyone says "everyone hated option 4", here's a little thing:

Why does Yoshida hate linkshells/communities? [25 likes to OP]

Thanks for ruining the only experience that keeps me playing. [37 likes to OP]

Petition to reveal Server names before transferring! [46 likes to OP]

Thread: A history in server merging - Why SE is creating an overcomplicated mess. [42 likes to OP]

So, in 4 different threads that basically are talking about the same thing, we get no more than 50 likes in the OP. Last time I checked on my server alone (Wutai), I can find at least 200-300 people at any given time.

Now, I know that the number of likes does not give a real indicator of how many people agree with the thread/idea, but it still shows that only a handful of people decided it was worth it's time to do a simple click on the OP.

Whatever SE does with the merges, I'll stay. But I am paying for a game developed by SE, not a community project.

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I couldn't agree more.

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Originally Posted by Kaizlu

Whatever SE does with the merges, I'll stay. But I am paying for a game developed by SE, not a community project.

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Pretty much this. Player input is always needed at some points, but when you shape an entire development process around the fans, well...

http://i.imgur.com/W2haG.jpg

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Originally Posted by Impulse

Pretty much this. Player input is always needed at some points, but when you shape an entire development process around the fans, well...

http://i.imgur.com/W2haG.jpg

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Bad example actually, this was because Capcom pussied out thinking no one cares for Megaman (let alone Legends) and that even though he was outside of the company he wouldn't dedicate to it.

(He actually stated he was dedicated.)

Ontop of that, they think we want the same RE for the 70th time lol.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

yes, we may disagree alot, but we both handle it like adults and don't do the "don't like it jump off a bridge" when we do disagree. i don't even agree with my wife all the time, but that doesn't make me hate her when we disagree either.

i may have a different opinion than you on many matters, but i never take different views personal. i just thought it was funny we actually saw eye to eye for a change and wanted to point out that monumental occasion lol.

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I just wanted to say thats its good to see people that are on here that disagree, yet still maintain a level of respect and civility with one another. Its such a rare thing on these servers. I have at times fired from the hip with responses based on my immediate reaction instead of stepping back and answering rationally, and every time I have always regretted it later. My thanks to you both for showing the rest how it can be done.

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Originally Posted by Enyyx

The players that care enough will come here to be heard.

It's the same with voters in government elections. Voter turnout may be 20%, but guess who gets to make the decision? The 20% that cared enough to vote.

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My only point of contention with this line of reasoning is this: when you look at the number of people that voted in the first player poll, there were tens of thousands of voter turn outs. There is no way that you could get those numbers from forums even if you combined the official forums AND all the fan sites. This demonstrates that a poll is much more effective at gathering what the majority want. Have you seen how people treat each other on these forums? Is it any suprise that many people don't want anything to do with them? Up until I started following FFXIV, I NEVER blogged on ANY site about anything. I dont even have a facebook account. You have to understand that this form of communication isn't for everyone, and thats ok. A player poll takes much of that out of the equation entirely, which is why you see higher turn outs for polls than you ever will on forums. I agree that only those that participate get a say, but only in terms of official polls by SE. I am sorry, but watching how many people choose to behave on here, (and I admit even I am not always at my best) I dont want these forums being used as a means to determine what I get as a player.

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Originally Posted by Kaizlu

I agree 100% with OP. Yes, the problem is not the fact they're considering the change, it's how and why. A server merge is a big deal in any MMO, and affects a lot of people. But it seems they're trying to please the "vocal minority" this time around.
Whatever SE does with the merges, I'll stay. But I am paying for a game developed by SE, not a community project.

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I totally agree with this not being a community project. I would have rather seen One of two things happen. 1, Yoshi step up and be a leader that makes the tough desicions that may be unpopular with some (no matter which choice he went with) and move forward. Or 2, choose to gather info on what the players want and make a desicion from there, but in a way that has everyone participating, including those that dont like the forums. I certainly dont envy the position the man has put himself in now.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

It partly doesn't even matter who is doing the speaking for the community as primarily we're just calling the development team out on their s#!%. Sorry, we're paying customers now. They have to start working a little more on customer service and they have now after the global backlash and we got what we wanted.

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I have been saying for months that it seems like, at times, the devs seem more concerned with trying to please "potential" customers vs. trying to please the customers that are loyal and are now (and often always HAVE) been playing and now paying. The fact that we have ALL been asking for better linkshell tools since day 2 of release, but have been ignored demonstrates my point on this.