State of the Game: Savage+ Dungeons and End Game Leves

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Translation: it happens on my low budget machine, therefore, it happens to everyone.

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When I used to play on my HP pavilion for FF14 (toaster that overheats) I never noticed a difference between characters on that either (which is why I was surprised to hear it on the forums that there was apparently a difference). Maybe I should crack it out again and test it :D

The only problem is, is that I am on slow internet (usual peak of 0.25mb/s, but once it went to 0.37!) so it might take a day or two to complete the updates needed.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Translation: it happens on my low budget machine, therefore, it happens to everyone.

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Either add to the OP or stop derailing the thread with this nonsense. all 4 of you ;)

Why is there always a big discussion on whether Enix can code new changes/has the resources/servers will blow up? On literally everything.

If they are utterly incapable of adding new forms of interesting content that most other MMO's out there can throw in effortlessly, that's a serious issue. WoW for example is 15 years old and still manages to be miles ahead of FF14 in terms of QoL and amount of features.

Enix isn't an indie company. They screwed up 1.0 and had to beg their players to forgive them, try again and to all appearances revived the game, but if 2.0 is a game engine that actually cannot adapt or take any major update or content changes, then they didn't revive it at all. They've just painted an illusion of a revived game. The game needs to adapt to survive in coming years, we can't follow the same formula forever.

Yes but at the same time they took 15 years to increase the starting backpack slots because of how they coded inventory and if it wasn't for diablo 3 dev team they would still be using the void storage for trasmog (which is prettu much what we have now).

It really isn't fair to make a comparison 1 on 1 also because of how mmmh forgiving blizzard fanbase really is, blizzard has 15 years of gaming and fanbase that can allow them to survive an expansion like wod, can it happen here? No it really won't

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

but if 2.0 is a game engine that actually cannot adapt or take any major update or content changes, then they didn't revive it at all. They've just painted an illusion of a revived game. The game needs to adapt to survive in coming years, we can't follow the same formula forever.

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Now I am picturing FF14 as a character that had raise used on them, but still fails to mechanics afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Why is there always a big discussion on whether Enix can code new changes/has the resources/servers will blow up? On literally everything.

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Because Yoshi-P has said things on multiple occasions that the playerbase has dismissed as "ps3 limits" or "ps4 limits", or "V1.0 legacy problems", of which none of it's really true, it's just the fan base needing a strawman to argue against changes because they know Yoshi-P doesn't want to say "absolutely not"


SE can put whatever they want into the game, but often the features people want, come from other games, and those features grew out of trying to solve a problem in those games. Like Mythic+ from what I've seen was literately a way to make their old content last longer, because in many MMORPG games other than FFXIV, you can steamroll over ALL content by simply out-leveling it. Never mind out-gearing it. Another flavor of this "old content+" can be seen in Mabinogi where you get recolored dungeons with recolored mobs that are larger, and a different end boss, but the content plays exactly the same, and the difficulty is little more than making the mobs have 10x the hp, so you can still steamroll over it by outleveling and outgearing it. But comparing a freemium game with wallet-robbing as it's business model to a subscription game is like comparing an onion to an apple. The business model of a freemium game demands making the content punishing so players are foolish enough to pay for cash shop items to give them P2W powers. Subscription games have to be balanced against the ENTIRE PLAYERBASE being able to complete it.

Our FFXIV game already has this feature as "Minimum iLevel" and people don't play it precisely because there is no reward to doing it. The only people I've ever see play this regularly are the dudes on the Speakers Network, who basically run the game in the proposed "Savage+" way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk65HixoG_4 , they have a roulette wheel on their podcast where they let RNGesus decide on what feature to turn off, and which dungeon to play.

Players would rather "unsync" content to get the clear/reward and then never play it again. Hence "simple changes" are not going to be simple things to implement, no matter what arm-chair developer idea is thrown out. Add titles? Yeah, and titles are tracked by achievements, and achievements have a currency that can buy premium items with. So if you put that into the game, they have to re-price the items, thus making them impossible to get for the 99% of the player base who probably would ignore, or be unaware of this. Mounts? How many mount slots does the game have and track? Is it 256? Is it 65535? Adding anything as a reward will come at increased loading time at some point, front-loaded (between zones) or back-loaded (when the feature is accessed.) FFXIV favors front-loading, and likely because the PS4 version has a slow hard drive. Back-loaded things are things like the orchestration rolls and mount music (which I believe Yoshi-P said there was a limit as well.)

And as I said earlier before people decided to nitpick the point I wasn't making, this will come at a cost. If implemented, it would likely come at the cost of no additional primals or raids during a patch cycle that would normally have it. So let's put the question to the floor.

"Would you rather have all the old ARR content revamped like Mythic+ in WoW, and have patch 5.0 pushed off to 2020?"

It took them 3 tries to find a way for challenge mode to took off and honestly they needed the help of a carrot on a stick + D3 team and that is with a background that made it easy for it to work.
FF14 feels to much stiff at the moment for mythic+ to work well, they need to sort that out before they can reliably do something like that here OR they could try and find something else, eitherway it's not something that will come out in a way it'll require time and trial and error.

Because honestly I want you to picture all the trashes in each dungeon having like 20x the health and doing moderatively more dmg, that would be like having HP sponge enemies and I don't know how much fun it'll be

I'd like more fun options to spend leve allowances on. 1.0 had the Onion Knight set as a tantalizing reward to try for over time. We could use more armor sets that only come from guildleves.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

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"Would you rather have all the old ARR content revamped like Mythic+ in WoW, and have patch 5.0 pushed off to 2020?"

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Holy moly.

This is so blown out of proportion I cannot even believe. How would one or two challenge dungeons push back 5.0 two years? I sincerely doubt that the people who want this want EVERY SINGLE DUNGEON IN THE WHOLE GAME to be challenge dungeons. Pick a few and go from there. Something needs to take the development place of Ultimate. At worst, it would push updates to Squadron and Perform out of the way which would be the greatest tragedy of our generation, I know.

Achievement points are useless. I have over 150 achievement points and they keep growing with nothing else added to the achievement pool. Besides, if they need to rebalance the price of achievement rewards (they don't btw) they would do it every single patch because every single patch has new achievements and titles. If a mount and some titles would cause SE to buckle and crash, they should just stop adding rewards completely, right? Just delete all rewards from here on out because poor little indie company SE's servers CERTAINLY cannot handle another single title or mount. These points are completely moot.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Because honestly I want you to picture all the trashes in each dungeon having like 20x the health and doing moderatively more dmg, that would be like having HP sponge enemies and I don't know how much fun it'll be

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I will agree, that does not sound fun, but it is entirely possible to mix it up.
A few challenges presented weren't merely just HP with standard comp but non-standard comps such as 4 BRD. Just doing 4 BRD in a normal dungeon on sync sounds like a riot and a good challenge to me. To aid with things like this, make a potion specifically used for these challenges that work like Eureka Sustain. It would be an interesting balancing act of dropping aggro to another BRD to wait out the potion CD, rotating the boss' aggro to make sure no one takes lethal damage.
Add some randomly spawning wandering mobs that are legit dangerous a la HoH and PotD to keep the group on their toes and wary of what they are pulling and where. Make some mobs in a pack tanky, but make one do massive AoE damage so it's nearly mandatory to focus that one down first. Add a Namazu Sticky Whisker that can drop down from the Heavens during a boss and if you don't kill it fast enough, it can either give the boss a random buff or start spawning an army of Namazu adds.

If you are worried people would just drop out if RNG does not smile on them, make the reward weekly and if you Vote Abandon or leave, then you are locked out of the weekly reward and/or a big hit to your leader board ranking. Timing out would only not lock you out if you say... reached second boss or something.

Clearly, these are all ideas with little refinement because I am spit balling right now, but it goes to show that there is things that work with FF14 that could be used. The game is stiff, but it does not mean they are missing out on a ton of things they could do with their own combat system.

This generally won't work. The problem is the same as soloing challenge floors in HoH or POTD; the game can't really scale difficulty slowly, and you'll quickly hit chokepoints. You'd get maybe two or three instances people can do, and then the fourth one people would have to pick certain dungeons that are even possible to do, where the boss just won't instawipe you or the mobs won't if they get boosted enough. Fifth would need cheese comps like how rdm is only one that can solo, unless it just ends up being heavy rng in terms of pomader drops or conditions that can apply to a floor.

They are better off just making single dungeons or trials they can hand craft to a specific difficulty.