Black magic...kinda sucks

If you are not loving the job why not simply move on? Or get it to 70 and do end game content and perhaps you will change your mind?
Just by your answers it is rather clear to those of us who have actually been playing blm for sometime that you lack understanding of the job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by P_Wing

Also SMN got less votes than BLM in that poll too. Contradicting to what OP have been asserting ...

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Good find! I didn't notice that.

---

I spent a while bebating if I should point this out to two people so proud of themselves and patting themselves on the back, but yeah it needs pointing out. First off, this is a popularity vote which in turn is EXACTLY my point that BLM isn't as popular as other jobs. Second, while summoner went down...ALL the jobs went down. There were three new jobs in all three roles, so of course there would be a decrease so that isn't as important as by how much. BLM dropped 42% in that poll, and SMN only dropped 23% in people wanting to stay with the same job as a MAIN. Context is everything guys.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Popotato

I think the issue most people have with your suggestions, other than them addressing things that aren't problems, is that you imply that the job should be more like SMN.

---

Now who is putting forth logical fallacy? Just because I have an issue with the mobility does NOT mean I want it to be as mobile as the SMN. A very simple way to promote a turret playstyle is to grant buffs as you stay in a place and remove it as you move. Meaning a play style where essentially as you cast you get the effect of ley lines that gets stronger as you stay put and weaker as you move...would be a very natural gameplay mechanic that would 100% promote turret playstyle without locking you into timers with cast time and the keeping up your orbs; but at the same time allowing more flexibility of movement as needed WHEN needed. Like I said there have been many games that promote turret style gameplay, and I have played many of them...this game does NOT do it well. Functional yes, but not in a way that makes the job as natural feeling as many of the other jobs...and yes some other jobs have issues with this as well

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaivaC

This all sounds like the OP doesn't get the basis of the job - just reading through this thread, they've been given some sound advice on how to deal with the mobility issue (as lack of mobility being traded for raw dps is kinda the identity of BLMs) and they start getting incredibly defensive over it and rejecting the idea of it. Doesn't like like a job for the OP is they cannot deal with the concept that has helped every good BLM from ARR to SB - knowing the fight well enough to know when's a good time to do certain things. I saw a post mentioned about how other DPS have an advantage - but that's not true. The ones with the advantage are the players who know how to perform their jobs with the least drawbacks.

OP, if you're having issues with mobility, just look up a guide as you continue leveling. BLMs are top-tier damage dealers without all the complication that a job like SMN brings to the table.

---

Knowing how to make a job functional is NOT the same thing as having things like mobility. Moving during GCD is yes an option...but it isn't actual mobility it's simply moving in stutters during GCD. True mobility is being able to move AS NEEDED WHEN NEEDED without losing to much momentum of the job, which is the core mechanic of this job...keeping momentum up. Knowing the fight, and all of that, is mearly another way of stating the obvious in that the job is meant to be played full momentum and the DPS is built around that. But as I just wrote in response above, you can have that while still allowing actual mobility to be a thing of the job while at the same time keeping to a turret playstyle. It isn't really that hard, and hell I came up with that AS I TYPED IT.

So yes, I understand there are ways to make the job work around the way it is build...that was never my point. My point is that the job just doesn't mesh well as it is built with the way the game is built. BLM would be perfectly fine in a game like WoW where movement isn't really a thing. But in FF14...not so much; and while knowlage does factor into it that doesn't excuse the basic fact that the design simply does not mesh well with the game design. Which even when 'dumbed down' as it is now anyone with basic familiarity with game design could tell you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malkria

I spent a while bebating if I should point this out to two people so proud of themselves and patting themselves on the back, but yeah it needs pointing out. First off, this is a popularity vote which in turn is EXACTLY my point that BLM isn't as popular as other jobs. Second, while summoner went down...ALL the jobs went down. There were three new jobs in all three roles, so of course there would be a decrease so that isn't as important as by how much. BLM dropped 42% in that poll, and SMN only dropped 23% in people wanting to stay with the same job as a MAIN. Context is everything guys.

---

Throwing in basic percentages doesn't change the fact that it's an outdated poll with a meagre sample space. Additionally, the gameplay difference between 2.x BLM and 3.x BLM is much more different than the difference between 3.x BLM and 4.x BLM. It went from a mid damage proc based mage to a heavy sustained damage mage. I'd recommend looking at FFlogs for more reliable statistics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malkria

Now who is putting forth logical fallacy? Just because I have an issue with the mobility does NOT mean I want it to be as mobile as the SMN. A very simple way to promote a turret playstyle is to grant buffs as you stay in a place and remove it as you move. Meaning a play style where essentially as you cast you get the effect of ley lines that gets stronger as you stay put and weaker as you move...would be a very natural gameplay mechanic that would 100% promote turret playstyle without locking you into timers with cast time and the keeping up your orbs; but at the same time allowing more flexibility of movement as needed WHEN needed. Like I said there have been many games that promote turret style gameplay, and I have played many of them...this game does NOT do it well. Functional yes, but not in a way that makes the job as natural feeling as many of the other jobs...and yes some other jobs have issues with this as well

---

Firstly you don't know what a logical fallacy is.

Secondly, the suggestion that you put forth is the definition of purely functional without considering fun. I'd like to preface this by saying that if you don't think the current Ley Lines is fun, that's fine, but understand you would likely be in the minority with that opinion. The current Ley Lines creates a change in the gameplay, unlike your proposed suggestion. Firstly, you need to consider the best times to use Ley Lines, and where the best location is during that time. Additionally, BLM players find it fun to squeeze out every single bit of value Ley Lines gives. Skill and greed correlate in this game, and running around in the circle during mechanics, to most people, is fun because it's risky and is a demonstration of skill. You could do the mechanic normally and safely, OR you could do the mechanic while sitting in Ley Lines the entire time to get that extra boost to your DPS.

Your suggestion is literally what BLM is right now, minus the micromanagement. BLM are already standing still because all of their primary sources of damage have a cast time. Adding a buff when standing still is just adding power to the current same gameplay style without enhancing the experience. When you cast Ley Lines, the BLM gameplay changes dramatically. You can't stand anywhere anymore, you stand only in your Ley Lines. Furthermore, Ley Lines has wiggle room, and that wiggle room is what makes it fun and interesting. Your suggestion encourages zero movement, and there is a huge negative reception towards abilities where you can't move at all (See Ten Chi Jin and Flamethrower). Additionally, a constant stream of power is less fun than a burst of high power. BLM look forward to being able to cast Ley Lines again, and when they do, the extra burst of power they get translates to satisfaction.

Your suggestion is no doubt stronger, but it is less fun. Your suggestion epitomises function over fun, something you've been completely against. I think all we can really do is agree to disagree. You think this suggestion, with the removal of the timer and a self-buff, will be more fun. No one else does. We can't do anything but come to terms with the differing opinions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malkria

Knowing how to make a job functional is NOT the same thing as having things like mobility. Moving during GCD is yes an option...but it isn't actual mobility it's simply moving in stutters during GCD. True mobility is being able to move AS NEEDED WHEN NEEDED without losing to much momentum of the job, which is the core mechanic of this job...keeping momentum up. Knowing the fight, and all of that, is mearly another way of stating the obvious in that the job is meant to be played full momentum and the DPS is built around that. But as I just wrote in response above, you can have that while still allowing actual mobility to be a thing of the job while at the same time keeping to a turret playstyle. It isn't really that hard, and hell I came up with that AS I TYPED IT.

So yes, I understand there are ways to make the job work around the way it is build...that was never my point. My point is that the job just doesn't mesh well as it is built with the way the game is built. BLM would be perfectly fine in a game like WoW where movement isn't really a thing. But in FF14...not so much; and while knowlage does factor into it that doesn't excuse the basic fact that the design simply does not mesh well with the game design. Which even when 'dumbed down' as it is now anyone with basic familiarity with game design could tell you.

---

The fact that you can't keep momentum with BLM when it has all the tools it needs to keep momentum, even in high end fights like O8S once again highlights your inexperience with the job. Furthermore, the solution you posted above ruins two mechanics that BLM players find to be core to to BLM's fun.

Wanting to stand as still as possible in a game with relatively movement heavy fights is the complexity of the job, not a fault of the job. This has been reiterated countless times to you already. BLM's kit lacks in complexity within the spells mechanics itself, but the demonstration of skill and the fun of the job comes with the implication of these skills. You're trying to take away what BLM players find fun in the job so it can align better with your personal idea of fun. There already are jobs that implement your ideal BLM's playstyle, so don't try to homogenise these job identities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malkria

I spent a while bebating if I should point this out to two people so proud of themselves and patting themselves on the back, but yeah it needs pointing out. First off, this is a popularity vote which in turn is EXACTLY my point that BLM isn't as popular as other jobs. Second, while summoner went down...ALL the jobs went down. There were three new jobs in all three roles, so of course there would be a decrease so that isn't as important as by how much. BLM dropped 42% in that poll, and SMN only dropped 23% in people wanting to stay with the same job as a MAIN. Context is everything guys.

---

Your "popularity poll" has a total of ~2700, and the poll was regarding "What *will* be your main" (before knowledge of FFXIV 3.x jobs will be like) versus "What is your main?" 2700 responses when every person has two votes means you had a turnout of about 1400 individual people. The poll is also over three years old since it predates Heavensward, which need I remind you, is before people would actually know what Enochian would really be and how it would feel. I contend that your "popularity poll" then, has no relevance, both due to age and due to statistical insignificance when compared to the playerbase as a whole.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malkria

True mobility is being able to move AS NEEDED WHEN NEEDED

---

BLM can move when needed. If you can't move when you need to, you're doing it wrong.

Aetherial Manipulation lets you teleport to a friend every ten seconds. Between The Lines lets you teleport back to your Ley Lines whenever you want. Thundercloud and Firestarter reduce your cast times to 0s and can be forced to proc. Between Sharpcast, Swiftcast, and Triplecast, you are guaranteed five instant spells per minute. This adds up to about 20% of your time in combat. It's your responsibility to make sure that this 20% of combat lines up with the times you need to move.

If you don't want this responsibility, play a different job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GunksFoy

This is true, however, if you read your tooltips you know it's bound to AF/UI. Don't lose that, and you won't lose Enochian. Not saying it shouldn't be fixed, but it's not a real issue. And they have continually said "losing your timers" which at pre-70 is only AF/UI.

---

You are correct, but with lag and time delays, there will be instances where you maintained AF/UI but lost Enochian. And until you reach level 70 the only indicators are the "muted" skills. But at level 70 you get the Foul timer, so when that disappears you know you need to recast it. Surprised they din't add the Enochian icon back in, since they added almost every other one back in after the player base asked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malkria

I spent a while bebating if I should point this out to two people so proud of themselves and patting themselves on the back, but yeah it needs pointing out. First off, this is a popularity vote which in turn is EXACTLY my point that BLM isn't as popular as other jobs. Second, while summoner went down...ALL the jobs went down. There were three new jobs in all three roles, so of course there would be a decrease so that isn't as important as by how much. BLM dropped 42% in that poll, and SMN only dropped 23% in people wanting to stay with the same job as a MAIN. Context is everything guys.

---

Because 4.0 Black Mage was literal trash. Despite being a supposed personal DPS king, it couldn't even out-perform Summoner in that category while offering nothing to the raid same Mana Shift and Apoc, which Summoner brought. Add to the fact, it has an obnoxious learning curve, and it's hardly a surprise people were switching off to Summoner or Red Mage. The 4.1 buffs have changed the landscape—making Black Mage closer to the monster DPS it was intended to be. Nevertheless, it will take time to shrug off the stigma it's built.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malkria

Then everyone I talk to is apparently an idiot? Because I'm being told that BLM not only is NOT the strongest DPS but is also just not fun to play in a lot of my FC and friend's eyes. For a lot of the same reasons I've already talked about (hell it is one of the reasons I picked up the BLM to try it again).

---

BLM is the strongest DPS caster tho. Maybe said people you talked to don't know how to BLM as well. Astros and Dragoons sure as heck choose me over than RDMs and SMNs when it comes to buffing. ¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Because 4.0 Black Mage was literal trash..

---

As a career black mage, can confirm.

Once the shiney buttons wore off, you really got to see the problem, but they adjusted it in the Deltascape minipatch, with further adjustments through until now. It's not quite where it should be, but it's not nearly the handicap it was prior, even if the few really good ones were still stomping about the field.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malkria

snip

---

I didn't even realize that you had responded. What I said are not ways to work around the job - those are things you should be doing in order to effectively play the job. I toyed a little with it after my post in PotD, just to see if your concerns were valid. Granted, PotD is not exactly the best way to use it, but my BLM is in the 30s, so I jumped in to see what a lvl 60 BLM feels like. I am not convinced that the problems are nearly as bad as you are suggesting. In fact, beacuse of you, I now have a bigger interest in BLM. BLMs do not need the mobility that you are suggesting. What you want is a mobile turret. This is not WoW. Again, I have to say, if you feel like you're struggling with this in higher levels, then you are not playing the job correctly. The job shines best when you know the fight and knew when you can and cannot execute certain actions.